German car mag: Audi R8 vs. Corvette C6 shootout - Vette wins!

No, wrong. Look above that :)
uh oh, I totally missed that one. Sorry! :(
Well, I haven't read the original version but from your translation this sentence seems to be the crunchpoint:

"When the Audi trumps with perfect build quality, noble leather, cool metal and close-locking switches, the Corvette saves itself with a sensational price performance ratio."

In other words: The Corvette only wins because it's cheaper. The true verdict is hidden beneath superficial praise: The Corvette is only good for its price but not good, full stop.
No. What they are saying is that the R8 is a perfect car, and the Corvette "only" is good. If both cars would come at the same price, I'm sure the R8 would have won. And really, if they'd cost the same, I'm sure the majority of FG boardies would choose the R8.

But the Corvette is cheaper, and not just by a bit. It surely isn't as good as the R8 when you go into detail, yet, it's hard to ignore that it beats the R8 in a surprising range of categories: power, torque, weight, acceleration above 100 km/h, 1/4 mile, braking distance (cold), economy, top speed and price. And with all love for the R8 being a fabulous car, you can not just abandon that, especially if you consider that the R8 is the much more modern car in every way.
 
And really, if they'd cost the same, I'm sure the majority of FG boardies would choose the R8.

If there were a Corvette model that costs as much as the R8, it would be an absolut monster.. Considering the ZR-1 will be cheaper than the R8..
 
If there were a Corvette model that costs as much as the R8, it would be an absolut monster.. Considering the ZR-1 will be cheaper than the R8..
No, the other way around. Imagine the R8 would be as much as the C6, both still the same cars (except the price obviously). Which one would you get?
 
The R8 is obviously a higher quality product than the C6...
 
No, the other way around. Imagine the R8 would be as much as the C6, both still the same cars (except the price obviously). Which one would you get?

Audi R8, of course. At that price, Audi will be bankrupt in a few short years and you can own the car that killed them. :p
 
To coin an American phrase, "if it ain't broke don't fix it"? I call it lazy. And even a bit cheap (financially). They don't want to spend the $$$$ to develop a more modern OHC smaller displacement engine in terms of their flagship performance car. They have the 3.6L V6 with some good technology--why can't they drop 2 turbos on it or graft on two more cylinders. How long is GM going to continue to use that rear suspension (leaf springs), that engine design (pushrods), and those plastics (interior)? And for that matter, how long is Ford going to use that rear axle in the Mustang. I've defended American cars before, but this time I feel the time is running ouit along with my patience for more modern technology.



Not a joke. Its my opinion--which I'm entitled to. I owned a C4 Corvette (briefly)--hated every minute of it. I gave it to my mom when she needed a new car and I continued to drive my 3000GT VR4 (which was faster in about everything but 0-100mph). I've driven the preceeding 2 generations of Corvettes with the same feeling I got with the C4. Yes the engine and transmission will last a billion million miles, but everything else probably won't. The Audi has a quality feel that the GM lacks. Its the same arguement as the new CTS-V vs the BMW M5. I just don't see the American car companies competing with all of its capablity. Why? GM didn't build what quite possibly could of been the best two American cars of the last decade or two (or four)--the Cien and the Sixteen--that to me is all the lack of desire I can stand. Infact Chrysler could of redeemed itself to me by building the ME Four Twelve. If VW felt the same way the Veyron wouldn't exsist.

I guess its just the culture differences between America and the rest of the world (minus Australia?). Larger and larger engines instead of trying to engineer the power from smaller engines. At least Ford is trying with their EcoBoost and GM has a spark of hope with the Ecotec turbo in the Solstice.

I understand your points but I don't think the pushrod motor should be considered antiquated. If our yardstick is effectiveness (power vs physical size, power vs fuel burn, power vs cost) by all measures the LS3 does a great job. Certainly there is something to be said for intricacy for intricacy sake. Why else would we buy mechanical watches instead of the more reliable and more accurate quartz models. However, that doesn't make the quartz watch some how lower tech or less effective. It?s hard to fault the LS3 when compared to say the M3?s V8. The BMW mill produces no more power, is physically no smaller and despite all of its intricacy and cost weighs, if I recall only 20lbs less than the 6.3L V8.

In markets where displacement is penalized it certainly makes sense to use less of it. However, in the US that has never been the case and GM is taking advantage of that.

The leaf spring is perhaps even more misunderstood. Where as the pushrod engine could be conceivably argued to be inferior, the leaf spring design on the Corvette is, from a technology point of view, significantly more advanced than the coils used by others. The Corvette is a better car for using the system.

The only problem with the system on the Corvette is people mistake (and it's advantages) for the leaf sprung axle used on older cars and trucks. In those setups the leaf acts as both spring and suspension arm. The Corvette's suspension is more properly called double A-arm suspension. It just happens to use a cantilevered fiberglass spring (similar to those used on compound bows) as a spring instead of a coil.

The system is lighter than coils and provides some anti-roll function thus allowing the car to use a lighter roll bar to get the desired roll stiffness. Compared to using coils the only disadvantage is cost. GM would have used coils if packaging would have allowed because coils are cheaper. They have no performance advantage (OEM vs OEM, not OEM vs aftermarket).

GM isn't the only company to look at or even use this type of suspension. Mercedes, Smart, VW and Volvo have used it at various times. Ford and Honda both have patents on variations of the same basic design used by GM. If the cost of the leaf springs were to drop we would see many more cars use them. However, at the moment the market has said that the weight and packaging advantages only outweigh the costs on occasion.

If GM looses the leaf spring on the C7 I suspect we will see many people claiming GM finally came to their senses. In reality they were clever when they implemented the widely spaced, twin mount, composite leaf spring set up. It's a marvel of suspension design efficiency and clever at that. It should be considered one of the technical high lights of the C4 Corvette.

BTW, the C3 and earlier Corvettes used a less sophisticated design. The C3 treated the two halves of the leaf spring as effectively two independent springs. Starting with the front suspension on the C4 and all around on the C5 and C6 the leaf spring acted as both primary spring and anti-roll bar (with help from a second conventional anti-roll bar). That was a step forward in suspension design and that is the aspect which other car companies have copied.

For more info and some good illustrations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvette_leaf_springs
 
Nice first post, welcome man! :thumbup:

Anyway, I think this leafspring-pushrod-discussion is absolutely overrated and mostly fed by haters who try to give the Vette a bad name. As long as it works, and obviously it does work very well, why change it?
 
Thanks for the welcome.

So long as we are talking about low tech Corvette stuff, we could talk about the car?s wooden floor boards. On one hand it sounds low tech, wood floors. But if we call it what it mechanically is, honeycomb sandwich panels, then it's not so bad.

Since '97 the Corvette has used a balsa wood aluminum sandwich panel in the floors under the passenger compartment. GM looked at lots of options but in the end balsa wood, used as a honeycomb core between two aluminum panels provided the best combination of cost, durability, vibration and noise damping as well as rigidity. It's kind of funny to think that the Corvette may be the only mass market premium car to use wood as something other than a decoration (Morgans aren't mass market). And as used it would be one of the very very few production cars to use a honeycomb sandwich structural panel. In the Z06 we get to go one further and call it carbon fiber honeycomb construction because the aluminum is replaced with carbon fiber sheets.

Really, the Corvette isn't low tech at all. For every bit of gee whiz technology on some other car there is a bit of gee whiz in the Corvette.

The only thing I don't care for about the mechanics of the Corvette is the fundamental chassis is that of a convertible. The coupe is still structurally about the same as a convertible because the roof panel isn't structural. Now the Corvette chassis is very stiff for a convertible but I don't think it's as stiff as many of the coupe competitors. That gives the other guys an advantage in suspension tuning. In suspension design the ability to run stiff low speed dampers (ie the damper does a lot to resist the chassis bobbing around during aggressive driving) is huge. If we want responsive handing we need a certain amount of suspension stiffness. That comes from a combination of the springs and the dampers. If the chassis is stiff we can put more of the work on the dampers. That's good because we can still have a reasonably compliant ride (which is also good for ultimate grip) while still having responsive steering.

The Corvette chassis isn't super stiff. It isn't bad at all but again, it is handicapped by being a targa. The Z06 does gain something from the fixed roof panel but it's chassis lost some stiffness when changed from steel to the lighter aluminum. Also, the structure behind the seats which attaches to the back of the roof panel comes down vertically, rather than sloping back to the rear. As such it can't carry loads from the roof into the rear suspension as well as one might like.

So ultimately, the Corvette's handling is somewhat compromised because the chassis is compromised to some degree. The degree of compromise isn't tragic but it does give the other guys a bit of an advantage when it comes to chassis tuning. Of course when the review is vert vs vert the Corvette's very stiff for a convertible chassis becomes an advantage. I don't recall seeing the 911 convertible beating a Corvette around a track.

BTW, this has been a great discussion. I hadn't thought about Porsche medaling in the pricing of Audi vehicles to protect their own sales. Good stuff!
 
IWhy else would we buy mechanical watches instead of the more reliable and more accurate quartz models.

Because they are much, much more complex and much, much harder to make, are a joy to see in action and are tiny miracles of craftmenship?

By the way: There are good and high-quality quartz watches, too, which are sold by juwelers exclusively - it doesn't have to be the 10 $ junk from the supermarket.

The really good things in live are always a bit more expensive and are never available in a sale, no matter if it's watches or cars ;)

I have a question about your leave springs essay:

If they are superior, why don't companies that always use the best and latest technology (Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, AMG, BMW M-Division, etc.) use them, too? It can't be the costs in that case.

So I'm sorry but the price argument seems to be a bit too simple for my taste. I don't buy that GM and Ford are the only ones using it, despite it being more expensive, while struggling for survival and while equipping even their showpiece cars with parts and materials from the cheapest offerer.

I am no engineer or technician but my logic and my common sense tells me that there have to be technical disadvantages, otherwise the leading makers of performance cars would use leave springs in their performance cars, too.

But they don't.

Why is that?

Nice first post, welcome man! :thumbup:

Anyway, I think this leafspring-pushrod-discussion is absolutely overrated and mostly fed by haters who try to give the Vette a bad name. As long as it works, and obviously it does work very well, why change it?

Quite right but there seem to be those who believe it's stone age and those who believe it's actually high tech.

I suppose the truth is somewhere in the middle and it's just an alternative, yet excentric solution for a technical problem.
 
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I have a question about your leave springs essay:

If they are superior, why don't companies that always use the best and latest technology (Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, AMG, BMW M-Division, etc.) use them, too? It can't be the costs in that case.
I personally wouldn't rate leafsprings higher than the conventional springs, and it certainly doesn't help the reputation of a car being modern. Therefore, I don't think it would make selling any of these cars easier.
Quite right but there seem to be those who believe it's stone age and those who believe it's actually high tech.

I suppose the truth is somewhere in the middle and it's just an alternative, yet excentric solution for a technical problem.
I agree entirely. For me, it neither is stone age, nor high tech, just a simple, yet well working solution for an apparent problem.
 
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Z06 > (a million other good german cars) > R8 > normal vette.
 
MacGuffin,

As the owner of several mechanical/automatic watches I at least understand why I buy them. I would argue that complexity is all in how you look at it. A semiconductor certainly seems more complex to me. We may mass produce them but it still is a complex bit compared to even a mechanical chronograph. Of course when it comes to watches remember that around the late 70s and early 80s the mechanical watch was near dead because the holy grail of what made one watch better than the other, accuracy was achieved with quartz timing. Rolex could no longer claim their watch was better than the next due to being more accurate. Part of why mechanical watches are valued is due to a dedicated marketing effort that convinced people that mechanical is some how better and should command a premium over the more reliable and accurate quartz watches. It worked as I paid a lot extra to get an automatic movement in my watch ;)

As for the leaf springs, again several European companies have used them. Volvo used them on the 960 for packaging reasons. VW used them on a 100 km/L prototype because they are very light. Mercedes uses them on the front axle of at least some Sprinter vans (used with McPherson struts). Smart used them on the first generation Smart cars. Ford and Honda have filed patents (recent ones at that) regarding the use of the springs but I don?t think they have used the technology.

There are a few disadvantages to the leaf spring but not many. The big one is cost. Even in high end cars there are cost benefit trade offs. If one type of spring costs more than another it better have some advantages. I suspect in most cases the transverse composite spring doesn?t fair well in a cost benefit analysis due to the high cost.

Based on what GM has said in both an SAE paper and in ?All Corvettes are Red? the leaf spring was one of three suspension types GM considered for the C5 Corvette. They also considered conventional coil overs and a bell crank system where the shocks would be articulated via a pushrod. The design constrains for the C5 were a low hood line in front as well as saving space for the V8. In back they wanted to retain a decent sized trunk. In the Corvette specifically GM decided the leaf spring was the packaging concept that worked best so they paid the extra money for the springs. The reduction in weight (springs and anti-roll bar) were likely secondary benefits.

It is worth noting that when designing the C5 a dollar value was assigned to each pound of a component. For each pound over a component came in over a target weight the price had to be reduced by say $5. For each pound under a target weight the price could be increased by that same $5. This system allows the engineers to get an idea when it is worth paying extra for lightness or when it is OK to save money with a heavier part. I suspect the leaf spring failed to meet this price/weight trade off. It was likely much more expensive than its weight savings.

So the Corvette used the springs primarily for packaging (but they lighter weight didn?t hurt). What about Volvo. Well when they updated the 940 into the 960 they used a leaf spring in back as well. I believe the 940 had a live axle out back. The 960 was given IRS. Given that the 960 was based on the 940 it is possible that the IRS was designed to fit into the same space as the live axle on the old car. True or not, Volvo stated that they used the leaf spring because it packaged better than the coils and allowed for a larger cargo area.

I don?t know why Mercedes and Smart chose the transverse leaf spring for the front of the Sprinter and Smart. Again I suspect it was packaging. Mercedes might have chosen them due to their good service life. I am purely speculating at this point but they VERY good cycle life of the springs might be important in a delivery vehicle which will likely run up many more mileage per year and more miles over it?s life than many cars. The Sprinter vans do use fiberglass leaf springs in a conventional leaf spring, solid axle layout in back. Again, service life and compared to a steal leaf spring a BIG reduction in weight are likely the reason.

Some heavy trucks and trailers use the composite leaf springs in a conventional layout because they are MUCH lighter than conventional leaf springs. So while the weight savings over a coil spring isn?t really enough to justify their use on most cars, the weight savings compared to a leaf spring is enough to justify their use on commercial trucks.

VW chose the leaf for performance reasons alone. Given their car was a technology demonstration vehicle cost wasn?t a big concern. Weight however, was a big concern. Well the fiberglass springs can store more energy per lb than any metal spring and when used with two mounting points it can serve as an anti-roll bar (the Corvette uses the supplemental roll bar because the leaf spring alone doesn?t provide enough roll stiffness for a sports car).


As for actual performance advantages over coils, I think the benefits are small if we don?t include packaging. Yes, there is a weight advantage but springs aren?t a great percentage of a total vehicle?s mass. While they do have better self damping characteristics than a coil the difference is just not that big of a deal in a road car. In short, unless your packaging situation demands their use, their high costs outweighs their benefit. A search of the patent literature shows that quite a number of automakers have looked into using them and recognize their advantages but the cost of the parts is really what keeps them out of a car. If an automaker can save a few dollars on the springs and put that money back into the dampers or somewhere else, then why over spend on the springs.

Ignoring costs, the Corvette is not handicapped at all by the springs and they certainly are ?higher tech? than conventional coils attached to double wishbones (another GM invention BTW). However, it seems their cost disadvantage almost always negates their use. If the cost of manufacture were to drop to the point of being similar in cost to coils I suspect we would see many more cars use them. Caroll Smith had talked about the virtues of just this sort of suspension in Engineer to Win
If I were involved in the design of a new passenger vehicle, however, I would give serious consideration to the use of a transverse composite single leaf spring of unidirectional glass or carbon filament in an epoxy matrix. This would be the lightest practical spring configuration and, although space constraints would seem to limit its use in racing, it should be perfectly feasible on road-going vehicles, from large trucks to small commuter cars. (Since I wrote this paragraph the new-generation Corvette has come out with just such a spring to control its independent suspension systems-at both end of the car.)

BTW, I wouldn?t say Porsche, Ferrari etc always use the latest and greatest either. Ferrari was still using tube frames long after even a Corolla was a full unibody chassis. Porsche still uses a rear engine layout which is not exactly ideal. They use what they use for many reasons. Some are performance, some are cost, some are because a small volume maker can afford to put more money into each component but can?t afford to pay large up front tooling costs. When it comes to springs, I have a lot of experience ordering them for non-automotive applications. We would pay $500 to set up a spring machine then $x per spring in quantities of 1 or 1 million. The fiberglass spring requires a mold. That means the $500 is more likely to be $50,000+ . That?s hard for say Ferrari to swallow. BMW?s M cars and the AMG cars are all based on production road cars. That means they share a basic suspension design with the lower line modes. It the leaf spring doesn?t work for cost reasons on the low line car you don?t add it to the high end car. Also, most sedans wouldn?t have the particular suspension packaging constrains that GM was working around. If the constraints don?t exist, don?t spend the extra cash on the higher dollar spring.
 
MacGuffin,

As the owner of several mechanical/automatic watches I at least understand why I buy them. I would argue that complexity is all in how you look at it. A semiconductor certainly seems more complex to me. We may mass produce them but it still is a complex bit compared to even a mechanical chronograph. Of course when it comes to watches remember that around the late 70s and early 80s the mechanical watch was near dead because the holy grail of what made one watch better than the other, accuracy was achieved with quartz timing. Rolex could no longer claim their watch was better than the next due to being more accurate. Part of why mechanical watches are valued is due to a dedicated marketing effort that convinced people that mechanical is some how better and should command a premium over the more reliable and accurate quartz watches. It worked as I paid a lot extra to get an automatic movement in my watch ;)

Well, I currently have this and that's all I'll ever need ;)
watch.jpg



About the rest of your remarks, you managed to go around answering my vital question: If leaf springs are actually better (what some people here say) and have so many advantages, why aren't they used by the leading makers of performance cars?

If I remember correctly, Jeremy Clarkson said the Corvette Z06 was brillliant on a track but terrible on the road, because the suspension was simply too hard there.

Could it be that leaf springs simply don't manage to fulfill the demands of versatility a modern car needs to have? Could it be they are only good for one form of setup and do not offer the characteristic line that is needed to make a car work under all conditions? Coils can be made to have a "progressive characteristic", meaning they are soft when they need to be and hard when they need to be.

Maybe that's not so easy to achieve with leaf springs? Just a thought I had...
 
About the rest of your remarks, you managed to go around answering my vital question: If leaf springs are actually better (what some people here say) and have so many advantages, why aren't they used by the leading makers of performance cars?

If I remember correctly, Jeremy Clarkson said the Corvette Z06 was brillliant on a track but terrible on the road, because the suspension was simply too hard there.

Could it be that leaf springs simply don't manage to fulfill the demands of versatility a modern car needs to have? Could it be they are only good for one form of setup and do not offer the characteristic line that is needed to make a car work under all conditions?

In short, no.

Coils can be made to have a "progressive characteristic", meaning they are soft when they need to be and hard when they need to be.

The Z06 was too hard (in old man with a bad back Jeremy Clarksons opinion), because it was set up that way. The springs only do so much, it's the shocks that make the biggest difference. The Z06 has super stiff racing style shocks. They were later reworked and replaced, after JC's review, to offer a more forgiving ride. The ZR-1 will have the same springs, only this time it will use the magnetic shock dampers with adjustable settings. The reason cars like the 911 Turbo, Gallardo, and F430 have a more compliant ride that works well with real roads, is because they also have adjustable settings for their suspension. The coil springs don't change though, they don't suddenly become stiffer, or change size. The coils stay exactly the same stiffness. It's the shocks that change settings, making it soft when it needs to be, and hard when it needs to be. It has nothing to do with the spring itself.

The only real advantage in terms of spring settings, is that coils can sometimes be manually adjusted. Like when someone buys adjustable coilovers that come with a tool that allow you to compress the spring/shock, for a lower harder ride.

The main reason most car companies don't use the Corvette's style suspension is the same reason most companies don't use OHV engine designs, or Rear Engine designs like the 911, or SOHC setups that can easily handle 4 valves per cylinder. Car companies like to gloat about high tech advancements, even when those advancements offer no real performance gain. It's the same reason why Cadillac didn't want to use the Corvette motors in their XLR, which is based on the Corvette chassis. They wanted their car to have DOHC and seem so much better then a Corvette. But all they ended up building was a big, expensive, slow, inefficient, sports car. But hey, at least it had no pushrods! :lol:
 
I don?t think I went around the question, I really think I buried it in so much rambling that you didn?t notice it :D

Anyway, I wouldn?t take Clarkson?s word on just about anything. The Fifth Gear review of the Z06 described the ride as firm but acceptable. Clarkson is more interested in getting a laugh out of the audience than conveying actual knowledge and understanding. Funny? Yes. Informative and factual? No.

To get to the heart of the question, leaf springs have no fundamental vehicle dynamic disadvantage with respect to coils. They can be progressive or fixed rate if desired. If the suspension system and vehicle packaging can accept the way the leaf must span the car then there is no disadvantage in using them save one, cost. The cost factor is huge.

Perception? No I don't think that's a problem. Given that Volvo advertised that they used the leaf springs on the 960 I don?t even think it?s a perception issue. I suspect if Ferrari or Porsche were to use them the perception issue would quickly vanish.

It really is cost. The performance benefit vs coils is small and almost exclusively in the form of less weight. Yes, the leaf is lighter but 6lbs or 12lbs out of 3000lbs isn?t that much. For the cost difference between coils and leaves we can find other places to put the money into weight savings.

The benefit that had them on the Corvette and the Volvo 960 was packaging. GM specifically said they used the leaf springs in the C5 because of packaging. Design wise the C6 is very similar to the C5 and continues to use the same suspension design (though not the same parts). Volvo also said they were used for packaging reasons and the 960 would have lost cargo space had it used coils. But these are specific case and should imply that all cars have the same space/packaging limitations as the Corvette and Volvo 960.

If your suspension system doesn?t need the packaging advantage of a leaf spring then the cost is almost impossible to justify. The cost is high for at best a fractional improvement in suspension performance (assuming a comparison to an otherwise identical coil spring setup). Why would Porsche and Ferrari pay the extra cash for leafs if their particular chassis layout has the space for coils. Even if they were willing to spend the extra cash the marginal benefit (assuming coil spring packaging wasn't a problem) they would likely see that money could be more effectively spent on other areas of the car.

The Corvette design team however, felt that the total packaging advantage and what even benefits they got from that packaging advantage was worth the extra cost and they were used.

This information was somewhat buried in my discussion of the various cars and trucks that have used this system.
 
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If I remember correctly, Jeremy Clarkson said the Corvette Z06 was brillliant on a track but terrible on the road, because the suspension was simply too hard there.

If won a testdrive in a Z06 last year and the suspension aint THAT hard..
And iirc Tiff Needell didn't think the Z06 was unbearable..
 
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Additionally, JC said the same thing about the Porsche 911 GT3 RS, so it's not a leafspring problem.
 
I'd take the Z06 over the GT3's..
 
In short, no.



The Z06 was too hard (in old man with a bad back Jeremy Clarksons opinion), because it was set up that way. The springs only do so much, it's the shocks that make the biggest difference. The Z06 has super stiff racing style shocks. They were later reworked and replaced, after JC's review, to offer a more forgiving ride. The ZR-1 will have the same springs, only this time it will use the magnetic shock dampers with adjustable settings. The reason cars like the 911 Turbo, Gallardo, and F430 have a more compliant ride that works well with real roads, is because they also have adjustable settings for their suspension. The coil springs don't change though, they don't suddenly become stiffer, or change size. The coils stay exactly the same stiffness. It's the shocks that change settings, making it soft when it needs to be, and hard when it needs to be. It has nothing to do with the spring itself.

The only real advantage in terms of spring settings, is that coils can sometimes be manually adjusted. Like when someone buys adjustable coilovers that come with a tool that allow you to compress the spring/shock, for a lower harder ride.

The main reason most car companies don't use the Corvette's style suspension is the same reason most companies don't use OHV engine designs, or Rear Engine designs like the 911, or SOHC setups that can easily handle 4 valves per cylinder. Car companies like to gloat about high tech advancements, even when those advancements offer no real performance gain. It's the same reason why Cadillac didn't want to use the Corvette motors in their XLR, which is based on the Corvette chassis. They wanted their car to have DOHC and seem so much better then a Corvette. But all they ended up building was a big, expensive, slow, inefficient, sports car. But hey, at least it had no pushrods! :lol:

So does the XLR share the same transverse leaf spring design as the Corvette or does it have a conventional independent rear suspension setup with magnaride? To be fair, the XLR was made to be a cruiser, so the smoother Northstar engine makes sense. It isn't as fast as a Corvette, but then again it was probably never meant to be. It's just a shame that they never gave it the interior to match it's looks. Even the cheaper CTS has a much better interior than the XLR!
 
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