Shifting gears in a manual

re : driving schools

here in qu?bec, they are not even obligatory! so, you pass the written exam, wait 1 year, pass the practical exam and bingo, you can drive legally... :blink:
but the law changed recently and they will become obligatory next year I think. even that, about 10 or 15 years of new drivers without obligatory school...

re : shifting

yep, shifting TOO fast will put more stress on the synchros, thus wearing them faster. but double clutching is definitely not necessary.

what I usually do when I shift normally : I will push the gear lever towards the gear I want, but not forcing it. The synchro will start to spin and with just a little pression from the gear lever, the gear will engage practically by itself. I do that too when downshifting normally. (sorry if the last part isn't too clear, i tried my best :))
 
MXM said:
And I don't know what do you mean about driving school being just for passing the test.
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I think it?s true in 99% of the cases though, and I also think that a good driving instructor will tell you exactly that. I have never met anyone who was anywhere near being a good driver right after passing the driving test, and that includes people who had been driving racecars before they were old enough to drive on a regular road. They may have been better in the control department, but lacked any experience in dealing with normal traffic.

You become a good driver with experience, and by using your brain whenever you get behind the wheel. The latter seems to be a problem for the vast majority though.
 
I had my instructor say the EXACT same thing to me! :p

Also, got my licence last week on friday!! :D :D :D :D!

My instructor said that im switching for 3rd to 4th "far too quickly". And told me to be slower at changing gear..:mad:
I complied for the driving lessons, but will no longer shift slowly.

Your driving instructor is full of shit, like mine was.:)
 
treating a car gently never hurt anyone... except maybe the people who repair them...
 
Ford Prefect said:
I think it?s true in 99% of the cases though, and I also think that a good driving instructor will tell you exactly that. I have never met anyone who was anywhere near being a good driver right after passing the driving test, and that includes people who had been driving racecars before they were old enough to drive on a regular road. They may have been better in the control department, but lacked any experience in dealing with normal traffic.

You become a good driver with experience, and by using your brain whenever you get behind the wheel. The latter seems to be a problem for the vast majority though.
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Nobody is a a perfect driver right after passing a test, but that doesn't mean that driving school is useless and exists purely because of some bureaucracy.
 
KaJuN said:
I couldn't agree more. When I took driving lessons the vast majority of the time was spent maneuvering between cones in a parking lot at 2mph. How in the hell could that possibly make me a safer driver? It's when novice drivers need to know how to recover from a skid that they end up in big accidents. But apparently they can't teach that stuff because it encourages bad behavior or something. :rolleyes:
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When I learned to drive I did it on the skid pad/autocross course at Laguna Seca in the hands of Skip Barber. I think course like that should be manditory. Lane toss, skids... etc.

That said some gearboxes just need to be shifted slower. It depends on how precise the build quality is on it, really. Normal comfort shifts should be pretty slow. And yes, clutch release should be gradual. Not sharp, but gradual. Not slow either, though.

Also don't just sit there at the light with the clutch pressed in, use neutral. So many drivers just press the clutch in. It's not really dangerous, but it will wear out the clutch a lot faster (and your leg).
 
if you press it in completely, how will that wear the clutch? Or do you mean the pneumatics/hydrolics/whatever which move the clutch?
Mostly though it's too heavy to keep pressed in for a very long time so you eventually have to put it in neutral :)
 
Some cars are known to have problems if you disengage the clutch (press the pedal) for extended periods of time. This increases wear on the throwout bearings on all manuals, of course, but on some cars (the SN95/98 Mustangs, for example), holding the clutch in for extended periods can actually cause damage to the linkage.
 
just to be a smartass, I?m gonna add that the majority of modern cars also burn more fuel when you stand at the lights with the clutch pressed...

MXM said:
Nobody is a a perfect driver right after passing a test, but that doesn't mean that driving school is useless and exists purely because of some bureaucracy.
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It?s not useless, it teaches you the basics, and that?s why there is a driving test...
 
all for your comfort...

Most cars with drive-by-wire accelerator pedals will "prepare to move" by opening the throttle slightly when you press the clutch. The ecu injects more fuel and ignites at a later point. When you press the accelerator it just changes the timing and opens the throttle more... It?s a bit complicated...
 
MXM said:
Nobody is a a perfect driver right after passing a test, but that doesn't mean that driving school is useless and exists purely because of some bureaucracy.
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after seeing the most recent TG ep, I can see why you?re defending the usefulness of driving school... but only cause you?re from Finland... In Germany you spend a ridiculous amount of time and money in driving school, but I didn?t even get to practice braking hard enough to get the ABS to work. And I did my driving test in the winter...

I?d love to know what other countries actually seem to have inteligent people coming up with rules for this sort of thing...
 
Ford Prefect said:
after seeing the most recent TG ep, I can see why you?re defending the usefulness of driving school... but only cause you?re from Finland... In Germany you spend a ridiculous amount of time and money in driving school, but I didn?t even get to practice braking hard enough to get the ABS to work. And I did my driving test in the winter...

I?d love to know what other countries actually seem to have inteligent people coming up with rules for this sort of thing...
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That *wouldn't* be us. A trained monkey can get a license here.:p:lol:
 
Spectre said:
That *wouldn't* be us. A trained monkey can get a license here.:p:lol:
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Well yeah, but from what I heard you at least have regular tests to check if people can still see and hear properly... In Germany we just let our elderly people who are blind and deaf keep their license. We don?t even take it away after they have accidents, unless they are particularly horrible. Every system has it?s flaws.
 
Dude, my instructor wanted me going EXACTLY THE SPEED LIMIT as in not even 1mph under or over all the time. :lol:
Don't worry, when it's over you dump 90% of the shit you learned.
 
he told me that i need to pull the gear lever into neutral, pause, then shift into second.
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Assuming he didn't tell you to lift your foot off the clutch, wait until the revs are right for the target gear and then press the clutch back down -- all while still in neutral, mind you -- it's bull.

OK, jamming it from gear-to-gear like you're in a race will have an effect, but that's to the extreme and I don't get the impression that that's what you're doing. The difference between shifting reasonably quickly and actually waiting in neutral before shifting will be nill because the target gear will be spinning proportionately to the speed of the driving wheels. Waiting a half second for the car to slow from 30 mph to 29.7 mph will make no difference.

In fact, waiting too long between shifts will be hard on the clutch unless you're matching revs.

here in qu?bec, they are not even obligatory! so, you pass the written exam, wait 1 year, pass the practical exam and bingo, you can drive legally...
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That's 'cuz Quebec is "special" ...oops, sorry, I meant "distinct" :lol:

And yes, clutch release should be gradual. Not sharp, but gradual. Not slow either, though.
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You can release the clutch as quickly as you want with no ill effect if the revs are right when you do it.

Also don't just sit there at the light with the clutch pressed in, use neutral. So many drivers just press the clutch in. It's not really dangerous, but it will wear out the clutch a lot faster (and your leg).
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Huh? It might wear out a $2 spring, but it won't wear out the clutch it self as long as you don't let the clutch match revs for you when you bring it back out (and I don't).

just to be a smartass, I?m gonna add that the majority of modern cars also burn more fuel when you stand at the lights with the clutch pressed...
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Well, actually, wouldn't a car use fractionally less fuel as compared to leaving the clutch engaged with the gearbox in neutral?

With the clutch engaged, the engine only needs to idle itself and the flywheel. In the latter situation, it needs to also idle the clutch, and some gearing.

Most cars with drive-by-wire accelerator pedals will "prepare to move" by opening the throttle slightly when you press the clutch. The ecu injects more fuel and ignites at a later point. When you press the accelerator it just changes the timing and opens the throttle more... It?s a bit complicated...
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Pfft...drive by wire. You kids with your newfangled video-game-controlled cars :p

Give me a throttle cable any day ;)
 
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MXM said:
And I don't know what do you mean about driving school being just for passing the test. My experience was quite good. Practicing on the road from the first day, different traffic conditions, practicing in the dark time, on the slippery surface, with and without ABS. I'd say it has covered most of the things I needed quite well. Maybe that was an exception...
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See that is what more drivers need. In America all you do is learn to pass, unless you get some good tips from that wise family member. If you watch the new Top Gear episode (12x03) you will see what MXM is talking about and what a driver course should cover.
 
epp_b said:
Huh? It might wear out a $2 spring, but it won't wear out the clutch it self as long as you don't let the clutch match revs for you when you bring it back out (and I don't).
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As mentioned before, leaving your foot on the clutch causes excessive wear to the thrust/throwout bearing. This cannot be replaced without removing the gearbox (it is typically replaced when changing the clutch), so it's a good idea to look after it.

You should think of the clutch itself as the 'weak link' in the drivetrain. No matter how much you beat on your car, the clutch is desgined to give way before the rest of the transmission/diff/driveshafts/etc. Clutches are consumable, gearbox isn't really.

For the same reason, it's not a good idea to upgrade the clutch with a heavy duty clutch on some cars (WRX comes to mind).
 
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