The big FG referendum on burqas.

The big FG referendum on burqas.

  • Allowed

    Votes: 55 62.5%
  • Banned

    Votes: 33 37.5%

  • Total voters
    88
I'm torn on the forced recognizably issue (erring on the side of freedom for now), but one thing I know for sure: burqas or whatever should be given no special consideration. If there is no practical reason to ban them, then knock yourselves out.
 
I tried to cash a check at the bank the other day while wearing a ski mask, and they flipped the hell out. Why can't they be tolerant of my needs?
I've tried to do the same while wearing a hat and a scarf wrapped around my mouth and nose. They also flipped out. WTF??


Does that mean we should ban emo kids from having their hair cover their face?
It doesn't cover their entire face, only one eye, so that would be fine I think. We should just ban emo kids in general.
 
It doesn't cover their entire face, only one eye, so that would be fine I think. We should just ban emo kids in general.

or we should be banning pirates as well :lol:
 
They should be allowed, banning any article of clothing, especially one that covers up, is preposterous. I could not care less if a muslim woman wants to wear one, how does it affect me? It doesn't.

As for the recognizing people. Why should everyone have to always show their face in public, so CCTV can identify them?
 
As for the recognizing people. Why should everyone have to always show their face in public, so CCTV can identify them?

yep, there is no such thing as privacy when in public...
 
I'm torn on the forced recognizably issue (erring on the side of freedom for now), but one thing I know for sure: burqas or whatever should be given no special consideration. If there is no practical reason to ban them, then knock yourselves out.

This is pretty much how I feel.

If you want to go into a secure area, such as a bank or an airport, take it off. If you want a government photo ID (such as a driver's license), take it off, and be prepared to take it off if law enforcement asks you to.

Otherwise, wear it. But don't expect a largely non-Muslim society to change all the rules for you.
 
I don't really care what other people wear.
 
I have to largely agree with Bone on this issue..
In Belgium the situation isn't the same as in let's say the USA..

As bone stated before, even our counterpart of Santa Claus has to change because of religious issues
And I've been to several Muslim countries (Turkey, Marocco and Algeria) and I have to say I was shocked to see how few people wear clothes like burqas or headscarfs (I do believe they are more represented outside of the big cities in smaller villages)

I also agree that if you come to live in a country you should do some effort to adapt to the culture of that country and at least care to learn the language spoken in that country.

An example of something muslims have been complaining about lately, is being allowed to wear a burqa/headscarf when going to a swimming pool... Since, some of these pools have ben created, like in Amsterdam.
 
I voted banned (Assuming we are talking about the full monty - face covering and all).

The most important thing to know when discussing this issue is that it's not a religious one, as most people believe (even those who wear them). The Quran only requires women AND men to dress modestly. The particular form of dress in question is actually cultural, and predates Islam.
 
Just to support the identification issue:

fototessera_burqa.jpg


How many people do think that this is serious? Still, this can happen.

I can not avoid to quote LeVel and grietsc about such things: when I enter my bank, I must look into a camera that take a picture of my face, and sometimes I have to take off my glasses because the system won't recognize a face if I'm wearing them. And I think my glasses are much more needed that whatever kind of clothes there might be. What if a burqed woman want to enter the same bank? Is she allowed to enter just because religion forbid her to show her face in public? How much time until bank robbers will show up in burqas and are granted free access everywhere?

And what the camera does, the bank clerks should do themselves if they had not the automatic system. Try to enter a bank with your helmet on... And you can always take off your helmet, while you can't with burqa. It is "religious" and what is important is exactly the prohibition to show one's face. Very different from the scarf (@ sonza68 - emo-kids CAN brush their hair away, if requested, sso your comparison, unfortunately, is flawed. (and I am not sure it is not a shame that we can't ban emo-kids)).

The ability to identify someone is not dictated by some sort of fascism, but from the need of a society, and it's not a simple question of freedom submitted to law, because yes, this spoils some of our "freedoms", but the possibility of identifying you is part of the freedom of every other person you meet everyday, especially if they are interacting with you. So no freedom lost to one side means one freedom lost to the other. There is no exit.

Besides, Islam do not force burqa on women AT ALL, even if the burqa supporters say so. This is evident by looking at the fact that a great variety of veils exist, like chador, niqab, hijab, and other. Many islamic cultures allow a form of veil that leaves the face completely visible, so the presence of a more covering veil is a pure cultural heritage, not religious in a strict sense. I must also remember, just as a note, that cultural, or even religious dictates are not forcefully "good" just because they exist or are practiced (that would be the exact and similarly mindless opposite of those saying that what is different is therefore wrong), and tolerance means to have an open mind towards everything that is different, unknown and maybe better, it does not mean a passive acceptance of everything that meets the only requirement of being fancied by the first person you can meet in a street.
 
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I despise the burka ... I hate it. But I wouldn?t ban it. This is not about what I think is wrong and right, it?s about forcing my taste or my views onto people. And in a free society you don?t do that.

On the identification-issue: I have to identify myself to members of the executive or judicative (Police, Judges, attorney) over here by law. I don?t have to idenify myself to anyone else. And I like it that way. If a bank wants me to identify myself in oder to doing buisness with me, I can choose if I want that. If a doctor wants me to identify myself (to see if I?m not using someone elses insurance for example) I can choose to do that. If a telecomunications-provider wants me to identify myself before making a contranct with me, I can choose to do that. If i want to buy some alcohol and I am asked for ID to prove my age, I can choose to do that.

But I never have to if I don?t want to. I can choose to do it, or not to do it. If someone would not want to take of their Burka, they can do so. They won?t be doing buisness with anyone who insists on a identification ... but that is their choice, it?s not unlawful. I don?t see why I should be taking that choice from them ... the choice to be miserable and isolated, locked away by familiy and tradition ... but a choice no less. People make stupid choices. We can?t just ban every opportunity for stupidity ... we?d be locking ourselves up with the Morons in a Cage just because some idiots don?t know better ... and I won?t do that. What we should be working on instead, is to make clear (and enforce it with all we have) that everyone has a choice to start with and that familiy and tradition can?t take that choice away. It?s the idea of freedom that we should get across ... not the idea of banning stuff. That?s what the people who force girls under burkas do ...
 
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I despise the burka ... I hate it. But I wouldn?t ban it. This is not about what I think is wrong and right, it?s about forcing my taste or my views onto people. And in a free society you don?t do that.

On the identification-issue: I have to identify myself to members of the executive or judicative (Police, Judges, attorney) over here by law. I don?t have to idenify myself to anyone else. And I like it that way. If a bank wants me to identify myself in oder to doing buisness with me, I can choose if I want that. If a doctor wants me to identify myself (to see if I?m not using someone elses insurance for example) I can choose to do that. If a telecomunications-provider wants me to identify myself before making a contranct with me, I can choose to do that. If i want to buy some alcohol and I am asked for ID to prove my age, I can choose to do that.

But I never have to if I don?t want to. I can choose to do it, or not to do it. If someone would not want to take of their Burka, they can do so. They won?t be doing buisness with anyone who insists on a identification ... but that is their choice, it?s not unlawful. I don?t see why I should be taking that choice from them ... the choice to be miserable and isolated, locked away by familiy and tradition ... but a choice no less. People make stupid choices. We can?t just ban every opportunity for stupidity ... we?d be locking ourselves up with the Morons in a Cage just because some idiots don?t know better ... and I won?t do that. What we should be working on instead, is to make clear (and enforce it with all we have) that everyone has a choice to start with and that familiy and tradition can?t take that choice away. It?s the idea of freedom that we should get across ... not the idea of banning stuff. That?s what the people who force girls under burkas do ...

Very well said. I completely agree.
 
good call i say. religion only slows down evolution...
No, intolerance and ignorance "slow down evolution." A lot of religious people may fit that bill, but so do a lot of atheists.

if you want to keep your own culture, you should stay in your cultures region...
God forbid (heh), that you have to put up with someone who looks/thinks/acts/believes differently than you. :rolleyes:

If you want to go into a secure area, such as a bank or an airport, take it off. If you want a government photo ID (such as a driver's license), take it off, and be prepared to take it off if law enforcement asks you to.

Otherwise, wear it. But don't expect a largely non-Muslim society to change all the rules for you.
Agreed. Religious attire of any sort should not be specifically banned.
 
AFAIK, several States have laws against wearing masks in public.

As previously stated, it's a cultural practice not a religious one. And there are many cultural practices (and even some religious practices) that we restrict. We don't let Rastafarians smoke marijuana, do we?
 
But I never have to if I don?t want to. I can choose to do it, or not to do it. If someone would not want to take of their Burka, they can do so. They won?t be doing buisness with anyone who insists on a identification ... but that is their choice, it?s not unlawful.

they would call you a racist for not doing business with them...
 
Wear whatever you want, as long as you're making the choice yourself.

This.



It's stupid to think that you shouldn't be allowed to wear something just because of different religious/cultural beliefs.

I say you should wear whatever you like but be prepared to get the occasional "wtf" glance from people who aren't used to it.
 
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