2011 Formula 1 European Grand Prix

It is completely impossible to defend position as long as there is a "Drag Reduction System" in use in Formula 1. Because this joke of a rear wing drivers matter less and less. It's no longer a game of catch up and try to pass it's a game of catch up and wait for overtake area. :|

With a inferior car nobody can really defend their position anymore really.
 
-Cpt. J.- said:
It is completely impossible to defend position as long as there is a "Drag Reduction System" in use in Formula 1. Because this joke of a rear wing drivers matter less and less. It's no longer a game of catch up and try to pass it's a game of catch up and wait for overtake area. :|

With a inferior car nobody can really defend their position anymore really.
Click to expand...

Yeah remember Imola '05 or '06? Compelling action between Alonso and Schumacher without a single overtake. It was all about defending and placing an inferior car so the guy behind couldn't get past. Now it's just press the magic button and sail on by with a 'seeya later'. I just don't like the idea that the guy behind gets a massive advantage and the poor bugger ahead is effectively penalised for having track position. It isn't exactly equal.
 
Red_Bull said:
Yeah remember Imola '05 or '06? Compelling action between Alonso and Schumacher without a single overtake. It was all about defending and placing an inferior car so the guy behind couldn't get past. Now it's just press the magic button and sail on by with a 'seeya later'. I just don't like the idea that the guy behind gets a massive advantage and the poor bugger ahead is effectively penalised for having track position. It isn't exactly equal.
Click to expand...

agree. for now, they could change that the first driver can activate his DRS for the second zone as well...gives him a chance to fight back
and then get rid of it for next year
 
Wait, you prefer no overtaking to abundant overtaking?

DRS does add some level of challenge to driving. We've seen Mark Webber, who can't seem to get used to DRS, slide into escape roads and/or run wide several times now after he attempts an overtake.

I really like the DRS, I just wish it could be used anywhere and by any driver.
 
jsausley said:
I agree with LEDF1. In terms of skill, it is apparent that Vettel is a fantastic racing driver, consistent and calm, which is very important. But, I think most Formula 1 drivers would be able to perform at this level given they also had the best equipment and the best team, like Vettel does. Obviously there is some skill in qualifying as highly as Vettel does almost every weekend, but he has not proved himself in adverse conditions or under pressure like many other drivers. Perhaps this will come in time, or perhaps he will keep breaking under pressure like he did in Canada when he was under attack by Button. We will see.
Click to expand...

Then why isn't Webber anywhere near Vettel? People rate Webber rather highly and yet he hasn't matched Vettel even remotely. If we were to look at just the performances of Webber then you wouldn't even say the Red Bull was the by far and away the best car. Don't forget he won he first race in a drenched Monza in 08, which he was a class act in.
 
jsausley said:
Wait, you prefer no overtaking to abundant overtaking?

DRS does add some level of challenge to driving. We've seen Mark Webber, who can't seem to get used to DRS, slide into escape roads and/or run wide several times now after he attempts an overtake.
Click to expand...

No, I just wish it wasn't contrived, gimmicky passes that cheapen the spectacle.

I really like the DRS, I just wish it could be used anywhere and by any driver.
Click to expand...

Would sorta negate any advantage of having the system in the first place, but I would also prefer this as it would keep conditions even. The tyres do more than enough to allow passing without DRS.

Also have you been to the Post Your Car forum yet? Do so :p
 
Last edited:
LEDF1 said:
I mean to have such a dominant car in only your third full season is something most recent World Champions have not had.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Jenson Button had an amazing car in '09, even though he had to wait for years for that chance to arrive. Whereas Hamilton had the luxury of driving one of the best cars on the grid, if not the fastest car, during his '07 debut season.


LEDF1 said:
Related to this he hasnt really ever won a race coming from behind of holding off a much quicker car (just look at canada).
Click to expand...

He doesn't need to. He out qualified everyone, and the car certainly doesn't drive itself. Webber for example couldn't match his performance. So what are you trying to suggest here? That the championship contender from last year just forgot how to drive suddenly? Don't bullshit yourself.

Vettel is faster than everyone at the moment, because he is driving one of the two fastest cars on the grid, and that he is riding on a wave of confidence which allows him to push the envelope and maintain the current poise.

LEDF1 said:
So I think until that happens Vettel cannot be regarded as highly as he is atm.
Click to expand...

lmao. He is already a world champion. I don't think Vettel would give a flying fuck what armchair racers think of of his overtaking abilities. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
jsausley said:
Wait, you prefer no overtaking to abundant overtaking?

DRS does add some level of challenge to driving. We've seen Mark Webber, who can't seem to get used to DRS, slide into escape roads and/or run wide several times now after he attempts an overtake.

I really like the DRS, I just wish it could be used anywhere and by any driver.
Click to expand...

We've seen alot of overtakes this year. This is true. But in the past every time a overtake happened it as something spectacular. Even when the drivers failed to pass the car in front, it added alot of tension to the spectacle.

This year, overtakings are nothing spectacular.
Passing the car in front is too easy on many tracks and I find races are not that exciting anymore. We see alot of overtaking and they add some entertainment, yes. But the tension and the excitement is nearly all gone. I have always hated the overtaking zones we got this year...

Yea there are more overtakings but there is no excitement in them anymore.
I would not say I prefer no overtaking to abundant overtaking. I have never said that, who would want that? I prefer meaningful overtaking to a circus.
 
Last edited:
I think to be fair on race day Webber has been pretty good generally in terms of pace but he has been struggling with the tyres in qualifying. However I wouldnt consider Webber in the list of the top leading drivers at the moment, he makes many silly mistakes in races. I mean last year he had a real chance to win the tittle but crashes like his huge one in Valencia last year and Korea suggests that he too cannot take the pressure well.

Also MadCow I was trying to say that he's clearly had the quickest car by some margin and to have it so early in his carreer is something no other driver has had. Jenson had to drive cars that were terrible and he struggled to keep his career. Same with Alonso started out with MINARDI moved to Benneton/Renault only won 3 years later as they built the team up but the car was certainly not the quickest. On Lewis Hamilton I agree he too had an amazing car instantly however I dont think he had the fastest car by the marging that Vettel does. I think you dont understand what I'm trying to say. I was simply suggesting that he hasnt had any victories whereby his car is clearly not the quickest. This is an important fact because I think to measure how good a driver really is you have to look at races that they won which they plainly shouldn't have done. Example. Nigel Mansell had a very successful season in 1992 but no one regards his driving that year as extraordinary as he had the fastest car by miles, same as Schumacher in 2002 and 2004, same as Vettel 2011? However both Mansell and especially Schumacher have won some races that no one expected them to win, look at China 2006, 1998 Hungary, or even his second place finish in Spain 1994 whe he was stuck in 5th gear for most of the race.
So I think you need to stop getting offended.
 
Last edited:
Most boring race I've watched since Bahrain 2010 (which I didn't think was too boring at the time because it was the first race I ever watched).
 
Victoria said:
Most boring race I've watched since Bahrain 2010 (which I didn't think was too boring at the time because it was the first race I ever watched).
Click to expand...

Certainly you skipped Valencia last year?

I found it good spectacle that there were some overtakes outside of the DRS zone though. I think as far as the overtaking goes, they tried to enhance it with the new tyres and the DRS and they took it too far as they obviously would. They don't test rules and regulations much anymore before throwing them out there, it's almost random guess work, and they don't give those rules and formulas time to mature into something good and balanced, instead, every year we get new zany rules and regulations, which last one season and then are changed/banned.
 
I agree mpicco there needs to be be some time with really stable regulations after all that would in turn reduce costs, which is what the FIA claims it's trying to do with the new regulations. Teams wont be trying to develop new eniges and kers systems all the time, giving those teams like Williams a better chance at actually moving up the field instead of constantly spending money on changing their cars simply to comply with the regulations. The only thing that probably needs to be changed each year are the safety regulations.
 
mpicco said:
Certainly you skipped Valencia last year?
Click to expand...

Yes. I was (and still am) living in the United States; our Formula 1 coverage last year had all races live on Speed TV except for Canada, Valencia, Silverstone, and Germany. I didn't watch any of those four races. I also must have not watched Brazil because I have no memory of watching it.
 
Its awful that a race like montreal has to be followed by the dullfest of valencia, its like I imagine f1 would gain a few new fans after all the hype from the race in canada and then when they watch valencia I can see people assuming that pretty much every race is just as uneventful apart from one or two awesome races a season.
 
Red_Bull said:
Yeah remember Imola '05 or '06? Compelling action between Alonso and Schumacher without a single overtake. It was all about defending and placing an inferior car so the guy behind couldn't get past. Now it's just press the magic button and sail on by with a 'seeya later'. I just don't like the idea that the guy behind gets a massive advantage and the poor bugger ahead is effectively penalised for having track position. It isn't exactly equal.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. I've always said a race doesn't need to have loads of overtaking in it to be exciting. Indeed, I think too much and it just becomes a farce. Or NASCAR. Which is basically the same thing, actually.

A race can be just as exciting with one guy trying to find a way past another, like Monaco. I was on the edge of my seat with the situation with Vettel trying so hard to keep Alonso and Button behind. Sure they weren't passing and repassing every lap, but it was still incredibly exciting. Likewise I enjoyed the ending to Barcelona with Hamilton trying to find a way past Vettel.

Just as football doesn't need a 91-88 game, Formula One doesn't NEED loads of overtaking. DRS is just incredibly fake and I hope it is either adjusted accordingly (they said it would bring a car alongside another, not power straight by) or ban it completely. Silly that the so called "pinnacle" of motorsport needs a gimmick like DRS. :mad:
 
A few things I took away from this race:

- Valencia isn't nearly as bad of a track as many people make it out to be.
- Vettel is a better/smarter (and luckier) driver than Webber.
- Massa's pit crew let him down a bit. Was hoping to see him make the podium.
- The race was rather humdrum.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top