Clarkson's Patriotism and Anti-Americanism...

[WillDAQ]

What the US population lack in my eyes, is cultural and mental exchange with the rest of the world.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong, but this is right:

it goes directly against the American ethos. We are a nation of immigrants. Until the advent of PC, the cultural line here was assimilation.

Proof is Hawaii, the most culturally diverse place in America and yet somehow everyone is still rather American.

Although it has to be said hats off to the people who still fly this flag:

 

[Beech18]

Proof is Hawaii, the most culturally diverse place in America and yet somehow everyone is still rather American.

How do you figure Hawaii is more culturally diverse than New York or Los Angeles?

 

[NoNeedForAChestWig]

I think the British in general like to think we're quietly brilliant but fear we may be a bit crap.

I'm pretty sure we know we're crap.

We had to fight for our independence, and to top it off, we had to fight the best in the world.

You only won because you cheated!

 

[WillDAQ]

<snipped by Q. This post broke the thread.>

 

[Huayra]

I used to be one of those 12 year olds who used to get butthurt by what Jezza said about American cars in the older Top Gear series. Then, I realized he bashes just about everything. He's a great entertainer though and I became older and realized... Hell, this is actually funny. He's hilarious and there is no doubting his skills as an entertainer. Sometimes, Jezza can seem a bit biased with his love of UK's finest. Such as his love for Jaguar, Aston Martin, or Land Rover. Maybe, its the stigma of some Americans with the "We know everything about the world, we don't need to leave out of our beautiful country, America rules all!" I think its irritating when I hear things like that, yeah I'm fortunate to live in a great country as the United States, but I want to see how other cultures operate and lose sight of the ignorance. I may over thinking things, but I think that is how Jezza thinks. Try different things other than what a person is comfortable with. Might find something great.

 

[MWF]

I'm of 100% Polish descent and I am offended when some snot-nosed German kid tells me I need to travel to learn about culture and how the rest of the world works when the Germans have actively been trying to erase their recent "culture" and history. Plus, I don't need to go back two generations to hear first hand stories what happened. My parents lived it.

MacGuffin writes it's very hard for American to see their flaws. I suggest no American flaw rises to the level of whatever German flaw allowed the people of Germany to elect Hitler and embrace genocide and world war.

Those "funny" bars were bars frequented by locals in upscale Munich and Vienna, not tourist bars.

You need to brush up on your history, fella.

It was the crippling reparations imposed on Germany at the end of WWI that led to staggering inflation during the Wiemar Republic that allowed Hitler rhetoric to appeal to a discontented and bitter German people who then listened to him and facilitated his rise to power. Had Britain, France and America not been so obsessed with revenge and keeping Germany as a nation on as short a leash as possible then Herr Schickelgruber (sp?) would most likely have remained a looney in a gruppy raincoat on a street corner handing out flyers and ranting.

And I am sure that none of the Germans here want to erase that chapter from their history even if it were possible - FG is not a hotbed of holocaust denial I can assure you. Remember Germany as a nation wasn't much more than 60 years old when Hitler came to power and was still finding its own identity. Nations, just like human beings, have parts of their past that they aren't particularly proud of but before you level any accusations like that again ask yourself how you would feel if your parents kept bringing up something bad you did as a child, not only to you but in front of everyone you know?

Anyway a big for both derailing and simultaneously Godwinning this thread. Enjoy your red blobs while we get back to the topic at hand.

You may not realize it, Beech, but with your rants you have actually proved me right. Just telling you this in case you get banned soon.

Anyone started the sweepstake on when yet?

 

[Cowboy]

Ow.....so a topic about Jeremy patriotisme and attitude towards Americans has turned into a discussion about nasisme with a Polish guy and a German, I see this ending well!*



*when I say well I mean I'm stockpiling food*

 

[alaskarat]

The US is a country that 1) came to its world primacy pretty recently and 2) hasn't really been knocked off its pedestal since then, local setbacks like Vietnam notwithstanding. For a country, it hasn't had the time or perspective to learn humility. Some older powers like France, China, and Russia are still as prickly as the US despite having had more time to know better. The (broad) sense of perspective that the British, Germans, and maybe the Dutch have is probably rare among nations.

You say we have not been knocked off our pedestal but we have. In the war of 1812 with England the British Army burned down our white house and conquers Washington. How?s that for being knocked off the pedestal we declare war on Britain and they come and conquer our capitol. Our National Anthem is taken from a poem written after the failed British attack on Fort McHenry and Baltimore
The American Civil War tore this country up and is still America?s bloodiest war. That would be being knocked the pedestal would it?
The American Revolution the French were instrumental in us winning that war. I would save having France help you win a war is a big knock off.
December 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor we got our asses whipped by the Japanese with a large part of our mighty naval fleet sunk or severally damaged.
How about having airliners crashing into our buildings killing thousands?
It is not so much being knocked off your pedestal as to how you react to such.
As for not being under the oppression of NAZI Germany you need to take a trip to Normandy France and count the graves of our young men buried there. Europe?s failure to see or react to Germany?s hostile intentions is why they rolled into Poland, Holland, Belgium, and France. This was strictly a European matter yet we ended up over there anyways.
Yes I am a patriot and served in a U.S. Army uniform for 20 years. I am proud of my country just as others are proud of their countries too.

 

[Bad Bowtie]

I can't load page 3 for some reason, so I'm using this post to see if it will let me load it that way. Ignore it otherwise.

 

[Melkus]

Oh, stop! The US population has engaged in plenty of cultural and mental exchanges with the rest of the world. Look back less than 70 years to WWII for example. We learned about national socialism, exchanged gunfire with Germans and learned about their institutions like concentration camps and lebensunwertes Leben. I deeply urge all Germans, especially those under 40 years of age, to get out of the country and visit Auschwitz, Poland to learn about your recent past. It seems Germans have erased most of their recent history in Germany and one has to travel to Auschwitz to see a Nazi concentration camp the way it was.

Are you kidding me? Every schoolkid in Germany has visited at least one concentration camp. In many schools a trip to Auschwitz is mandatory. Germany's past is constantly discussed in the media. And its capital has a huge Holocaust memorial right in the middle. You know nothing about Germany, so why do you pretend you do?

In the '70s and '80s, I ran into Wehrmacht and SS veterans in bars in Munich and Vienna openly singing Nazi marching songs and throwing Nazi salutes. The real worry about the future was that the other patrons did not object.

Really? Sounds a bit .. implausible. Even "in the 70s and 80s" throwing a Nazi salute would have been punishable with three years in jail. I'm sure one could find some old Nazi dudes in Bavaria 40 years ago, but they certainly wouldn't have given Hitler salutes in front of other Germans - or in front of a tourist.

 

[MacGuffin]

Why bother wasting time with him? It's obvious, that he's not having any idea of what he's talking about and I seriously doubt he has ever been to Germany or Austria in the first place. He probably grasped some third-hand knowledge he got from hearsay and turned it into his is own position without ever bothering to get real knowledge.

You know, when Europeans (Jeremy Clarkson included) are making jokes about redneck Americans, who don't know the world beyond their own noses, we do it because of such folks, who cannot tell the difference between Gustav and Gasthof.

And just for the record: I just met some really great people from all over Europe and also really nice and great folks from America last weekend. Our Ringmeet showed how it should be.

Open mindedness is our future. Cherishing 70-year-old prejudices isn't.

Of course that doesn't rule out mocking and teasing each other a bit But you need intelligence to understand that.

 

[Amie8]

Anyone else unable to see the last page of this thread?

Testing...

 

[Ayman]

I used to be one of those 12 year olds ....

Thanks for being the first to actually get back on topic regardless of the posts that came prior to yours.

I'm saddened as to how this thread's turned out. I'm sure we all agree it's mostly because of Beech's rude and provocative interventions and his off-topic'edness. And I hope a moderator will take all the aforementioned reproaches into consideration in the event of a possible ban.

I do hope this gets back into the right tracks... For our reputation's sake (As a sensible community capable of conducting sensible and consistently relevant discourse)

Side Note : I have (Until now) been unable to access the fourth page. Not sure why that was. I can see however that I'm not the only one.

Regards,

Ayman.

 

[Gyvon]

You only won because you cheated!

I see your lips moving, but all I hear is QQ

As for the topic, it seems to me that Jeremy enjoys American cars more often than not. Someone brought up the R8 vs ZR1 review earlier, and, while he did point out the negatives of the ZR1, if I remember correctly, he still recommended it over the R8. The only American car that I can remember off the top of my head that he didn't like was the Camarro, and he wasn't the one doing the review of it. (Hammoned compared it with the Mercedes E63 AMG, which is another issue I won't go into here)

 

[bryanbeachboy1970]

What the US population lack in my eyes, is cultural and mental exchange with the rest of the world.

At the risk of derailing this topic yet again, I humbly submit the following as American items of culture that we have offered the world: blue jeans, Harley-Davidson (yes it is a culture more than a motorcycle, if all the t-shirts mean anything), Jazz, Blues, Rock'n Roll, Hollywood (which we may need to apologize for I admit), Pop culture icons (Superman and Spiderman anyone?), Coke and Pepsi. I could go on. As for 'mental' exchanges: the airplane, the telephone, the light bulb, the television, the electric guitar. And a little something called the Panama Canal. Both of those lists go on and on.

Lest ye think I show the exchange as one way, we do watch TGUK here, and the British film The King's Speech won our Academy Award for best picture. Examples here are harder to point out because, as Spie said, America tends to assimilate r/t differentiate.

While I agree that the Ugly American stereotype is hard to ignore, the fact is every nation gives in to that same sense of superiority, often without justification (see the upper portion of this response).

Honestly though, the worst of the three is James May, who denigrates American fast food then makes a 'pie' with Oz Clark that honestly looks just disgusting. I suppose this is why American fast food is so ubiquitous and British food vendors are so...not?

And yeah, I notice Clarkson really does like American cars, as long as they're muscle cars or 'good value for money' (the Chrysler 300 got some positive comments from him, IIRC).

 

[GraemeH]

If you think America gave the world the telephone and television, I don't even know where to begin...

So instead of correcting the list I'll put forwards what I think is the biggest contribution to human culture made by the Americans; their space program. Sure a lot of the key scientists that made the first orbital flights and moon landing possible were foreign and it was all based on German technology, but nobody else would have brought it together and thrown enough money at it to make it happen. In the part of the world that wasn't about to collapse, anyway.

The points made above weren't that America had made zero contributions anyway, it was that they don't care to experience others' (watching our television and talking on our telephones excepted...)

 

[RaphEmer]

Pop culture icons (Superman)

Joe Shuster, who co-created Superman, was born in Canada.

(I could go on, but my intent is not to get into correction-mode - I can't see page 5 of this thread, so I'm using this post to see if it'll let me see the page then)

Edit:
....and now page 5 is completely gone...that could explain why I was having trouble seeing it.

 

[WillDAQ]

How do you figure Hawaii is more culturally diverse than New York or Los Angeles?

<snipped by Q. This post broke the thread.>

Sorry, provided statistics of such strong evidential basis that I broke the very fabric of the internet.

 

[WillDAQ]

the airplane

Sir George Cayley

the telephone

Innocenzo Manzetti

the light bulb

Humphry Davy for the glowing wire
Woodward and Evans for the glass bulb

the television

John Logie Baird

the electric guitar

This one you can have

And a little something called the Panama Canal.

Are we talking 'invention' or 'creation', because it was a French idea.

Americans are good at claiming to have invented something.

 

[MWF]

Sir George Cayley


Innocenzo Manzetti


Humphry Davy for the glowing wire
Woodward and Evans for the glass bulb


John Logie Baird


This one you can have


Are we talking 'invention' or 'creation', because it was a French idea.

Americans are good at claiming to have invented something.

I like your point but the argument from the resident Septics will be "who made them actually work?". On your basis da Vinci invented the helicopter, Archimedes the laser beam and in the case of the Spartans homosexuality (which, of course, the US has gone on to perfect!)

And you forgot Sir Frank Whittle's minor contribution.