[10x08] December 2nd, 2007

[craliaz]

Pity about the Vauxhall badge which renders the car pretty much worthless. Over here, HSV commands respect as a premier car modifying business - similar to what AMG is to Mercedes I would think.

I completely disagree. that might be so if you lived in a little mining village but HSV being similar to AMG ?! ridiculous.

HSV's and holdens are very much bogan cars (equivalent, to some extent, of chavs for the UK users here). Perhaps to the few idiot bogans around (who, i must add.. albeit generalising a bit, know next to nothing about cars, really), HSV's command respect but not to the population who know their cars. Clarkson may like the vxr8 (clubsport r8), it may be a good bang for ur bucks because of how cheap it is (especially here) but i could personally never ever own one. and its predominantly because of the badge but also alot to do with the cheapness of it.

Im not just hating on Holden n HSV.. its just a little dose of fact. Also, i cant stand how most people love them (commodores n falcons) because theyre "Australian" they are not. Australia doesnt really have its own car. get over it

/rant

 

[Necx0]

HSV's and Holden's are not bogan cars. Mercedes are taxi's in Germany, does that make them worthless piles of crap just because some people use them as such?? HSV's command respect because for $75,000 you can buy a car that can do 0-100 in under 5 secs, do 270km/h and carry 5 people and a shitload of luggage. Still F6 Typhoon all the way for me!!

If the Commodore and Falcon aren't Australian cars.....who do they belong to?? They are developed in Australia by Australian engineers on Australian roads and Australian proving grounds.

 

[joharib]

HSV's and Holden's are not bogan cars. Mercedes are taxi's in Germany, does that make them worthless piles of crap just because some people use them as such?? HSV's command respect because for $75,000 you can buy a car that can do 0-100 in under 5 secs, do 270km/h and carry 5 people and a shitload of luggage. Still F6 Typhoon all the way for me!!

If the Commodore and Falcon aren't Australian cars.....who do they belong to?? They are developed in Australia by Australian engineers on Australian roads and Australian proving grounds.

admittingly, i do think holden do make decent cars, however theirs no sense of grandeur or presitge with the holden badge, much like a chevy badge i guess. Not to say the cars arent great, they just dont look quite and upclass as an e55 or something. Which ultimately doubles the cost of everything in the car. Not only that, but BMW, Audi, Mercedes all have long histories in the car business, have been renowned for making good cars for 3-5 decades now (ok, Merc have have alot of misses in the previous few years). Holden, hasnt really made a whole lot of appealing good looking cars till recently (excluding the HK brougham, which is my favourite holden)

Not to mention the good cars are tainted by the shitbox lineup (stuff like the cruze, adventra, vectra, astra etc.)

Also, the majority of the holden cars parts are manufactured elsewhere, i work in a parts distribution warehouse, majority of it is made in korea, some of it made in mexico, and even poland... Some is made in aus, but any mechanical stuff is made elsewhere, more than likely using australian exported steel. Same with ford, alot of their stuff is made in mexico for some reason.

Ultimately their US cars, but created by an australian division, much like the British fords are US cars, developed by brits, like the GT40 was.

 

[Red_Bull]

I completely disagree. that might be so if you lived in a little mining village but HSV being similar to AMG ?! ridiculous.

HSV's and holdens are very much bogan cars (equivalent, to some extent, of chavs for the UK users here). Perhaps to the few idiot bogans around (who, i must add.. albeit generalising a bit, know next to nothing about cars, really), HSV's command respect but not to the population who know their cars. Clarkson may like the vxr8 (clubsport r8), it may be a good bang for ur bucks because of how cheap it is (especially here) but i could personally never ever own one. and its predominantly because of the badge but also alot to do with the cheapness of it.

Im not just hating on Holden n HSV.. its just a little dose of fact. Also, i cant stand how most people love them (commodores n falcons) because theyre "Australian" they are not. Australia doesnt really have its own car. get over it

/rant

No, you completely missed the point. I wasn't comparing HSV with AMG, its just what those two companies are to Holden and Mercedes respectively.

A lot of people on the road drive your standard Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon, Toyota Camry, Mitsubishi 380, etc. So when a HSV E series pulls up at the lights, I think most males in their standard would look over and even if only for a second are caught wondering what such a car might be like to drive, or own. If so, then the E series has basically done its job. It has road presence, you can't deny that.

You need to also accept that 99% of the public are not car enthusiasts. They dont care if their engine has 4 litres, or 3.6L. They dont care what the car handles like at the limit because 99.9% of the time they'll never drive at the limit. There's no point designing a car that appeals to the minority that do care about such trivials. This is why Holden run such a successful business.

 

[craliaz]

HSV's and Holden's are not bogan cars. Mercedes are taxi's in Germany, does that make them worthless piles of crap just because some people use them as such?? HSV's command respect because for $75,000 you can buy a car that can do 0-100 in under 5 secs, do 270km/h and carry 5 people and a shitload of luggage. Still F6 Typhoon all the way for me!!

If the Commodore and Falcon aren't Australian cars.....who do they belong to?? They are developed in Australia by Australian engineers on Australian roads and Australian proving grounds.

lol keep listening to their lies if u want, but - (and this is something for everyone here to note) the fact is lots of australian mags n reviewers here have tested hsv's that claim <5sec 0-100kmh times... and they only do mid 5's

the fact is they do not command respect.. sorry if it hurts to hear it because you like falcons/commodores. dont know what ur on about bringing in the merc taxi's thing.. bit irrelevant dont you think?

go look around at people who are actually driving around in HSV's... its always a bogan or his wife. for the money of a HSV GTS id much rather have an alfa 159 v6. slower yes, but much less embarrassing.

im not denying that those HSV's are cheap and go well in a straight line.. but please dont try to suggest that there is ANY badge value at all

 

[Necx0]

lol keep listening to their lies if u want, but - (and this is something for everyone here to note) the fact is lots of australian mags n reviewers here have tested hsv's that claim <5sec 0-100kmh times... and they only do mid 5's

the fact is they do not command respect.. sorry if it hurts to hear it because you like falcons/commodores. dont know what ur on about bringing in the merc taxi's thing.. bit irrelevant dont you think?

go look around at people who are actually driving around in HSV's... its always a bogan or his wife. for the money of a HSV GTS id much rather have an alfa 159 v6. slower yes, but much less embarrassing.

im not denying that those HSV's are cheap and go well in a straight line.. but please dont try to suggest that there is ANY badge value at all

I don't listen to anyone's lies. I judge a car on its merits. Any car as fast as an FPV/HSV commands my respect. Sure there are some quality issues and they are far from perfect. But they are still bloody good cars.

The Merc taxi thing is not irrelevant at all. You are talking about badge value. You say the fact that HSV's are based on your bargain basement commodore means the badge is basically worthless, which is a fair enough point. But I am pointing out that badge value depends where you are in the world. VW Golf in Oz is a prestige car, in Europe it is an everyday econobox. Mercedes in Oz is something to aspire to, in Germany its something you catch to the airport.

The people I see driving HSV's and FPV's are middle-aged businessmen. I have met a couple of FPV owners and they have been quiet normal people who like fast cars. Every person I have seen get out of an E Series HSV has been wearing a suit and tie. Maybe the HSV is demographic in mainland Australia.

 

[reg]

This episode was good 7/10. At last star in a reasonable price car was intresting and I liked Formula One part. Lewis was fenomenal but they should bring Alonso on the track too!

 

[Covkid]

news uncut part 3. JC mentions something to May about 'a bar 6' which causes May to get incredibly angry. Does anyone know what this is about?

 

[Frederic]

news uncut part 3. JC mentions something to May about 'a bar 6' which causes May to get incredibly angry. Does anyone know what this is about?

Do you even bother searching for it?
Djeeez man
http://forums.finalgear.com/showthread.php?t=23591

 

[pepitko]

I gave the episode a nine, because I liked that his series returned to cars from cocking about.. I thought the old cars were very informative and interesting fun..

BTW Hamilton's time was amazing, did you notice how many correction with the steering wheel he was doing during corners? I believe the time, because it just looked really fast..

Hammond in F1 was good, because I originally thought that with all of the electronics, the F1 basically "drives itself," this clip just proved me wrong

 

[Bakis]

Typically something on the HSV/Holden cracked the shits when put under massive punishment. Hopefully this problem will not be as sever as the LS1, engine problem.

I've already heard from a few ppl that the high Ls2 powered VE's differentials crack the shits if u drive them hard, or around a track. Might be just a few early ones that got through the system.

I don't listen to anyone's lies. I judge a car on its merits. Any car as fast as an FPV/HSV commands my respect. Sure there are some quality issues and they are far from perfect. But they are still bloody good cars.

The Merc taxi thing is not irrelevant at all. You are talking about badge value. You say the fact that HSV's are based on your bargain basement commodore means the badge is basically worthless, which is a fair enough point. But I am pointing out that badge value depends where you are in the world. VW Golf in Oz is a prestige car, in Europe it is an everyday econobox. Mercedes in Oz is something to aspire to, in Germany its something you catch to the airport.

The people I see driving HSV's and FPV's are middle-aged businessmen. I have met a couple of FPV owners and they have been quiet normal people who like fast cars. Every person I have seen get out of an E Series HSV has been wearing a suit and tie. Maybe the HSV is demographic in mainland Australia.

Yep i agree with you, when you see either an FPV/HSV on the road u respect that cause you know its an very good performance car, and would shit on 80% of the other cars on the road. Same now if a see a RS4 or 911 Turbo or greater.

As for luxury and prestige i dont really see a Caprice or Grange, Force 8 or LTD as a higher rating car, if i see a S class or a 7 series thats when i think thats a real luxury car. And that the owner is too posh cause his blown over 200,000 on luxury.

Most of the ppl u will be seeing driving HSV's and FPV's would be businessmen that have them as company cars, if there in decent positions the company would normally give them a budget of like 75grand to get company car. Most privately owned HSV and FPV are owned by ppl aged mid twenty's to mid fifty's i think.

 

[JCTK]

lol keep listening to their lies if u want, but - (and this is something for everyone here to note) the fact is lots of australian mags n reviewers here have tested hsv's that claim <5sec 0-100kmh times... and they only do mid 5's

the fact is they do not command respect.. sorry if it hurts to hear it because you like falcons/commodores. dont know what ur on about bringing in the merc taxi's thing.. bit irrelevant dont you think?

go look around at people who are actually driving around in HSV's... its always a bogan or his wife. for the money of a HSV GTS id much rather have an alfa 159 v6. slower yes, but much less embarrassing.

im not denying that those HSV's are cheap and go well in a straight line.. but please dont try to suggest that there is ANY badge value at all

have u driven one of the latest Commodore/Falcon~?
I do agree that older version are a pile of junk but they have came a long way now.

And obviously you've NEVER know anything about manufacturer's claims, hardly any of such 0-100km/h time claimed by manufacturers were achievable in real life anyway~
most did their tests on very favourable conditions, with temperatures just cool enuf, some tail winds to help, on some super grippy tarmac somewhere which is most probably a drag strip, and more importantly, the way they launch the car will do absoblutely no good to the drivetrains...

and no badge value at all~? I'm sorry, they're doing very well down under (HSV and FPV), which is where a vast majority of these are sold anyway~ I wonder which part of Australia u live at where Holden and Ford would means jackshit to the general public...

PS. in case u're wondering, I spent a lot of my life down under in oz and nz...

 

[JCTK]

admittingly, i do think holden do make decent cars, however theirs no sense of grandeur or presitge with the holden badge, much like a chevy badge i guess. Not to say the cars arent great, they just dont look quite and upclass as an e55 or something. Which ultimately doubles the cost of everything in the car. Not only that, but BMW, Audi, Mercedes all have long histories in the car business, have been renowned for making good cars for 3-5 decades now (ok, Merc have have alot of misses in the previous few years). Holden, hasnt really made a whole lot of appealing good looking cars till recently (excluding the HK brougham, which is my favourite holden)

Not to mention the good cars are tainted by the shitbox lineup (stuff like the cruze, adventra, vectra, astra etc.)

Also, the majority of the holden cars parts are manufactured elsewhere, i work in a parts distribution warehouse, majority of it is made in korea, some of it made in mexico, and even poland... Some is made in aus, but any mechanical stuff is made elsewhere, more than likely using australian exported steel. Same with ford, alot of their stuff is made in mexico for some reason.

Ultimately their US cars, but created by an australian division, much like the British fords are US cars, developed by brits, like the GT40 was.

unfortunately this type of things are happening everywhere to every single car manufacturers... because things are cheaper to built in those countries...

no one can expect every single part from a Toyota were really built in Japan, nor can u expect the stuff on BMW, Merc and Audi were made in Germany... at least most of their products were still "assembled" in these countries...

at least Holden is an Australian badge~ just like Vauxhal is in a way kinda British...:lol:
all they do is specialise in re-badging GM stuff from elsewhere in the world...

 

[craliaz]

and no badge value at all~? I'm sorry, they're doing very well down under (HSV and FPV), which is where a vast majority of these are sold anyway~ I wonder which part of Australia u live at where Holden and Ford would means jackshit to the general public...

PS. in case u're wondering, I spent a lot of my life down under in oz and nz...

just because they sell well doesnt mean there is badge value. they sell well because theyre cheap and people like buying pseudo australian cars, thinking theyre being patriotic

i actually live in australia. perth to be precise, in hong kong i spose youre a bit detached.. oh and im not saying HSV and FPV mean jackshit to the general public, they just dont command the respect of say, an M3 or an AMG merc. Theres no class either, yobbo/bogan cars.. thats what im on about

 

[Hidden_Hunter]

just because they sell well doesnt mean there is badge value. they sell well because theyre cheap and people like buying pseudo australian cars, thinking theyre being patriotic

i actually live in australia. perth to be precise, in hong kong i spose youre a bit detached.. oh and im not saying HSV and FPV mean jackshit to the general public, they just dont command the respect of say, an M3 or an AMG merc. Theres no class either, yobbo/bogan cars.. thats what im on about

correct and if you look at the pricing of those cars they START at $70,000 more, so you'd kinda hope they did. Most of the clubsports I see are just driven by middle age guys on the daily commute, I see very few new hsv's being driven by bogan's and yobbo's, the older ones yes I'll agree that they seem to attract a certain element to them (which is true for just about any car, I see plenty of Hondas, Fords, BMWs driven by "bogans")

 

[vikiradTG2007]

This is the first time since Series 5 when everything that was shown in the preview video of the series was shown in its entirety with some episodes left to go. The last bits in the preview that weren't shown before were the VXR8 and Richard in the F1 car. And we still have 2 more episodes... Can't wait to watch the Britcar 24h one.

 

[craliaz]

This is the first time since Series 5 when everything that was shown in the preview video of the series was shown in its entirety with some episodes left to go. The last bits in the preview that weren't shown before were the VXR8 and Richard in the F1 car. And we still have 2 more episodes... Can't wait to watch the Britcar 24h one.

richard in the F1 car was in the preview.. i remember hearing him going "its unbelievable", with his voice muffled slightly coz he's wearing a helmet. and i THINK the vxr8 was in there too. but yeah, everything in the preview trailer thing has been shown, for the last 2 episodes its all surprises (apart from the britcar 24hr race)

 

[mazdaddy]

just because they sell well doesnt mean there is badge value. they sell well because theyre cheap and people like buying pseudo australian cars, thinking theyre being patriotic

i actually live in australia. perth to be precise, in hong kong i spose youre a bit detached.. oh and im not saying HSV and FPV mean jackshit to the general public, they just dont command the respect of say, an M3 or an AMG merc. Theres no class either, yobbo/bogan cars.. thats what im on about

 

[up82]

m an F1 fan so 10/10 for me....does anyone know what time did the BMW do in the end...

 

[IceBone]

m an F1 fan so 10/10 for me....does anyone know what time did the BMW do in the end...

Was already answered:

I also timed the automated BMW. It did it in a...

1:32.4
​

which is faster than:

Lotus Esprit V8 1.32.5
Audi TT V6 1.32.7
MG ZT 1.33.0
Noble M12 GTO 1.33.1
Mercedes SL 55 AMG 1.33.2
Volkswagen Golf R32 1.33.2
Cadillac CTS 1.33.3
Honda Civic Type-R 1.33.5
Holden Monaro 1.33.9
Ford Mondeo ST220 1.34.5
Jaguar XKR 1.34.7
Ford Focus ST 1.34.9
Volvo S60R 1.35.0
Ferrari 575M 1.35.2
Vauxhall Vectra VXR 1.35.3
Alfa 147 GTA 1.35.6
Lotus Elise 1.35.6
Aston Martin Vanquish 1.36.2
Renault Clio V6 1.36.2
Honda Civic Type R 1.36.5
Alfa Romeo Brera 1.36.9
Saab 95 Aero 1.37.9
Maserati 3200 GT 1.38.0
Bowler Wildcat 1.39.4
Bentley Arnarge 1.40.8
Overfinch Range Rover 1.44.0
Aston Martin DB5 1.46.0

UNBELEIVABLE!