Bad news for new Camaro owners

[Karoug]

Yeah, I get that impression too. If I can't watch a Formula 1 race without seeing teams suffering mechanical difficulties, what chance does a mass produced budget minded sports coupe have?

Not to mention my former neighbors brand new Audi A4 which spent 2 of it's first 6 weeks in the shops... Cars have flaws they will break down..

 

[prizrak]

Not to mention my former neighbors brand new Audi A4 which spent 2 of it's first 6 weeks in the shops... Cars have flaws they will break down..

Dude Germans can't wire a flashlight much less a car

 

[Ezbok58a]

I don't understand why the hype for this car was expected to translate into "perfect", and it seems a lot longer than it actually was due to its visual similarity to the concept car of (i think ) 3 years ago. Its a beloved nameplate in the US and some hype is to be expected.

Its putting down superior performance numbers to its rivals in a straight line and on a proper race track, its got fine braking, suspension and power plant systems, and it looks like a proper American over the top sports car for a price most people can afford! Remember this "OMG 40 GRAND PLUSS!" is the top of a line model with a few features bolted on, a nice SS example could be had in the low 30's. A 300hp Caddy CTS v6 camaro (with more power than my top of the line 90's v8 model) costs less than a honda fucking civic!!!

I think your bias, while well founded and a matter of personal opinion is leading you to angrily state opinion and guesses (educated and otherwise) as solid fact. General motors could never win with you, if it was a solid rear end it would be old tech, fully independent is too expensive for "a redneck mobile". If something breaks you jump on it, if they fix it right away with a recall you go on about "lol it still broke", and if it had never broken to begin with you would rail on about how inevitable it is something was going to break. Its getting ridiculous.

It's only a beloved name in the US if you have a Mullet, live in a trailer park and have at least two felony batteries on your rap sheet.

And the SS under 40k has absolutely nothing. It's a bargin Bin performance car and yet it's 36k. A 2010 Mustang GT at that same price has the track pack, navigation, and convinence package.

You also need to check your 'superior' performance figures, cause in the real world the Camaro is 'marginally' better than the 315hp Mustang GT. And if you really want to see how much of a pig the Camaro is, watch this...

[YOUTUBE]DEAzMgGbmcg[/YOUTUBE]

That is a SS Camaro 'Automatic'... You cannot screw up a Automatic at the track, so that time is pathetic.

For the money I'd rather a GXP G8 than a Camaro, I'd rather a Genesis coupe over the Camaro. Hell I'll take walking over a Camaro, they've proven to me they were shit with the 3 4th gen's I've seen (one of those being my own) not to mention the 3rd gen someone else had that was equally shit.

And Spectre, I'm surprised at you. You missed the fact that while the G8 and Camaro share the same platform, One is built in Australia, and one is built by the CAW in Canada... guess which one?

 

[freeferrarisdonotexist]

Yeah, I get that impression too. If I can't watch a Formula 1 race without seeing teams suffering mechanical difficulties, what chance does a mass produced budget minded sports coupe have?

All cars in F1 are subjected to extreme forces that break any part regularly.
For example, the engine. Why do you think even the best F1 mechanics change engines all the time? They are revving a 25000-30000rpm, being thrown constantly from gear to gear, and at those engine speeds an accidental declutch or over-revved gear can cause catastrophic damage- and that is just the engine. Trying to compare an F1 car with a mass produced coupe is like trying to compare a 747 with an SR71 Blackbird- technically they're both planes, but you don't try to compare them.

EDIT: Also, the original bone-stock 1980s Civic was probably the most budget minded thing this side of the modern Rio, but they still run and still have over 300,000 on the clock. Budget doesn't have to mean crap.

 

[TC]

All cars in F1 are subjected to extreme forces that break any part regularly.
For example, the engine. Why do you think even the best F1 mechanics change engines all the time? They are revving a 25000-30000rpm, being thrown constantly from gear to gear, and at those engine speeds an accidental declutch or over-revved gear can cause catastrophic damage- and that is just the engine. Trying to compare an F1 car with a mass produced coupe is like trying to compare a 747 with an SR71 Blackbird- technically they're both planes, but you don't try to compare them.

EDIT: Also, the original bone-stock 1980s Civic was probably the most budget minded thing this side of the modern Rio, but they still run and still have over 300,000 on the clock. Budget doesn't have to mean crap.

All I'm saying is that even with an astronomical budget and untold thousands of hours of research/production/testing/adjusting, not even an F1 car is perfect. Some races are flawless, some are not. The Camaro is trying to provide high performance, high handling capability, but with a low price. The only way to make such a car is to find the easiest and least expensive ways of doing things. A Porsche with similar power will cost twice as much for a reason. The cracked front fascia is a non-issue. It happened during a 160mph test on a preproduction tester and was promptly solved. The battery cable thing. I somehow doubt all the Camaro test cars could only drive 40 miles before breaking down because of the battery cable. Obviously it was an isolated incident and GM took it serious enough to recall/repair.

All this nonsense just seems like troll bait. Expecting absolute perfection from the cars they hate, while they act as apologists and hold their own fanboy brands to a lower standard.

It's only a beloved name in the US if you have a Mullet, live in a trailer park and have at least two felony batteries on your rap sheet.

Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. :lol:

 

[Ezbok58a]

Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. :lol:

Last I checked, I don't have a Mullet. Nor do I live in a trailer park. Nor do I have a rap sheet of any kind.


And last I checked, I have this sitting in my driveway, and not a Camaro.

So, how stupid are you exactly? :lol:

 

[freeferrarisdonotexist]

All I'm saying is that even with an astronomical budget and untold thousands of hours of research/production/testing/adjusting, not even an F1 car is perfect. Some races are flawless, some are not. The Camaro is trying to provide high performance, high handling capability, but with a low price. The only way to make such a car is to find the easiest and least expensive ways of doing things. A Porsche with similar power will cost twice as much for a reason. The cracked front fascia is a non-issue. It happened during a 160mph test on a preproduction tester and was promptly solved. The battery cable thing. I somehow doubt all the Camaro test cars could only drive 40 miles before breaking down because of the battery cable. Obviously it was an isolated incident and GM took it serious enough to recall/repair.

All this nonsense just seems like troll bait. Expecting absolute perfection from the cars they hate, while they act as apologists and hold their own fanboy brands to a lower standard.



Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. :lol:

I am expecting perfection because they said it would be perfect; and it isn't. Many, many much better cars (including better cars for the money) have been released with much less fanfare, much lower expectations and yet turn out to be much better than this sort of over-hyped, mediocre product. Honda wasn't touting reliability or easy modification with its Civic, but that ended up being a hidden benefit. Porsche didn't start out telling its consumers that the 911 would be a perennial all-rounder classic, but it is anyway. In other words, if you can't find a marketing balance, underhype, don't overhype. GM did overhype, and now they're paying the price.

 

[TC]

Last I checked, I don't have a Mullet. Nor do I live in a trailer park. Nor do I have a rap sheet of any kind.


And last I checked, I have this sitting in my driveway, and not a Camaro.


So, how stupid are you exactly? :lol:

Ironic. I think you missed the point.

The Camaro was built to combat the Mustang. If the Camaro is aimed at inbred rednecks with mullets, then so was the Mustang.

I didn't say anything about you actually owning a Mustang or a Camaro. I can see what you drive right under your name quite clearly.

 

[Ezbok58a]

Ironic. I think you missed the point.

The Camaro was built to combat the Mustang. If the Camaro is aimed at inbred rednecks with mullets, then so was the Mustang.

I didn't say anything about you actually owning a Mustang or a Camaro. I can see what you drive right under your name quite clearly.

You're still not understanding...

The Camaro has 'become' the inbred redneck mullet wearers car of choice. There's a reason why there are Mullet and redneck cracks made at the Camaro. Because that's what the inbreds want.

If they wanted Mustang's you hear the same jokes geared towards the Mustang. But you don't.

Ironic that two different brands of cars GM made/make that are classified as hillbilly redneck-mobiles. The F-bodies and the G body cutlasses/monte carlos...

 

[TC]

I am expecting perfection because they said it would be perfect; and it isn't.

Link please. I want to see GM's press release stating the car would be "perfect".

Many, many much better cars (including better cars for the money) have been released with much less fanfare, much lower expectations and yet turn out to be much better than this sort of over-hyped, mediocre product. Honda wasn't touting reliability or easy modification with its Civic, but that ended up being a hidden benefit. Porsche didn't start out telling its consumers that the 911 would be a perennial all-rounder classic, but it is anyway. In other words, if you can't find a marketing balance, underhype, don't overhype. GM did overhype, and now they're paying the price.

GM didn't hype the Camaro. The public and the automotive press hyped the Camaro. Every car company hypes their products, but most of their products are coma inducing crap that no one gives a shit about. The Honda Civic?? That car is designed (and strongly advertized) to be dead reliable, dead efficient, and affordable. It wasn't designed to be a modern American muscle car / sports coupe. The Camaro, while reliability and efficiency were important, those were not the center point of the automobile.

 

[MattD1zzl3]

You're still not understanding...

The Camaro has 'become' the inbred redneck mullet wearers car of choice. There's a reason why there are Mullet and redneck cracks made at the Camaro. Because that's what the inbreds want.

Stop acting like such a dick, seriously. What you're doing is prejudiced and wrong. You're calling me an inbred redneck criminal because of the car i drive?

Well i wont bother to "call" you anything, but i dont need to because of your actions and apparent lack of social skill speak for themselves, which i think is a much better scale to judge a person on.

 

[TC]

You're still not understanding...

The Camaro has 'become' the inbred redneck mullet wearers car of choice. There's a reason why there are Mullet and redneck cracks made at the Camaro. Because that's what the inbreds want.

If they wanted Mustang's you hear the same jokes geared towards the Mustang. But you don't.

Ironic that two different brands of cars GM made/make that are classified as hillbilly redneck-mobiles. The F-bodies and the G body cutlasses/monte carlos...

I've heard all those same generalizations about Mustangs too. We have plenty of rednecks here in Arizona and they love F-150's more then anything else. But I'm not going to support such obvious bullshit generalizations. I want a Camaro, but I also am not a redneck, nor do I have or ever had a mullet, and no rap sheet either. I also want a Mustang with that new track pack. Trying to push idiotic generalizations is kinda sad. Especially when the vast amount of European members on this board seem to prefer the Camaro over the Mustang.

 

[Spectre]

And Spectre, I'm surprised at you. You missed the fact that while the G8 and Camaro share the same platform, One is built in Australia, and one is built by the CAW in Canada... guess which one?

I guess you mistake me; I slam the unions when they deserve it. So far, I haven't seen any problems that can directly be attributed to the CAW's assembly "skillz"; all the public problems appear to be design or engineering related - and that's why I'm slamming them.

I only slam those who deserve it. This time, it is not the unionoids' fault. Surprisingly.

All this nonsense just seems like troll bait. Expecting absolute perfection from the cars they hate, while they act as apologists and hold their own fanboy brands to a lower standard.

I am expecting perfection because they said it would be perfect; and it isn't. Many, many much better cars (including better cars for the money) have been released with much less fanfare, much lower expectations and yet turn out to be much better than this sort of over-hyped, mediocre product. Honda wasn't touting reliability or easy modification with its Civic, but that ended up being a hidden benefit. Porsche didn't start out telling its consumers that the 911 would be a perennial all-rounder classic, but it is anyway. In other words, if you can't find a marketing balance, underhype, don't overhype. GM did overhype, and now they're paying the price.

This.

GM would have been much better served if they had not hyped the car so much - if they had simply announced the car and then shut up. They didn't; instead, they turned the hype machine to 11 (like Jaguar did with the )@#$&@$@#^ X-Type) and the resulting product simply couldn't live up to the promises.

Also, I believe it was Cheryl Pilcher, Camaro Product Manager, who when questioned in a Speed TV interview about the extraordinarily long development time claimed that the additional time was being taken to make sure that "the car would be perfect." So there you go.

 

[MadCat360]

GM did overhype, and now they're paying the price.

Somehow I doubt that. They seem to be selling just fine, but I haven't seen any numbers.

Savior of the company? Probably not. But it's hardly causing doom and gloom, except with y'all.

 

[Ezbok58a]

Stop acting like such a dick, seriously. What you're doing is prejudiced and wrong. You're calling me an inbred redneck criminal because of the car i drive?

Well i wont bother to "call" you anything, but i dont need to because of your actions and apparent lack of social skill speak for themselves, which i think is a much better scale to judge a person on.

I've heard all those same generalizations about Mustangs too. We have plenty of rednecks here in Arizona and they love F-150's more then anything else. But I'm not going to support such obvious bullshit generalizations. I want a Camaro, but I also am not a redneck, nor do I have or ever had a mullet, and no rap sheet either. I also want a Mustang with that new track pack. Trying to push idiotic generalizations is kinda sad. Especially when the vast amount of European members on this board seem to prefer the Camaro over the Mustang.

:lol:

I'm not pushing idiotic generalizations, the Car does it itself. I haven't come across one person or news story in a magazine or online that did not have mullet or redneck somewhere within the review of the new Camaro.

That being said you two are both idiotic to assume I'm pushing something that's been around since the late 80s. Go to any car forum and mention Camaro and see what comes back, I garantee it'll be a assortment of trailer trash, Mullet wearing inbred hick comments coming back your way. Watch a episode of cops once in a while when they go to a call in a trailerpark, 10 to one they'll encounter at least 3 F-body owners and one of them will end up going to jail for assault.

Get off your high horses. These cars have a reputation for a reason. Fail body wasn't just something created for the hell of it you know. GM hyped the everloving hell out of this car, with all the news reports of it in development, of it being in Transformers all that is Hype GM helped create.

And what do they have to show for it? A car that looks better in GM advertising than it does in real life, and a car that can only run the quarter mile in 13.0 flat while also not handling as well as a live axle equipped Mustang GT.

Brake weights to stop squeaking, a facisa that cracks at speed, a battery cable that a 4 year old could've re-routed better, and a center console gauge package that is absolutely worthless when you're in 1st, 3rd or 5th.

There's too much wrong with the car and it 'just' came out. GM went from making a brilliant car to making the same garbage that got them in the trouble they're in.

Its a New Camaro, but it's the same old GM.

 

[TC]

This.

GM would have been much better served if they had not hyped the car so much - if they had simply announced the car and then shut up. They didn't; instead, they turned the hype machine to 11 (like Jaguar did with the )@#$&@$@#^ XF) and the resulting product simply couldn't live up to the promises.

As I said before, I don't think GM overhyped the Camaro. At least no more then all their other products. And no more then any other car company hypes their own products. It was the public and the automotive press that have been overhyping the new Camaro. No one really cares about the new Accord or the new Nissan Maxima. But the Camaro drew a lot more attention and this thread is proof. If the new Honda Accord's front bumper cracked during a 160mph run or the battery cable frayed, no one would give 2 shits about it. It's just stupid that people are so gullible to fall into this nonsense.

Also, I believe it was Cheryl Pilcher, Camaro Product Manager, who when questioned in a Speed TV interview about the extraordinarily long development time claimed that the additional time was being taken to make sure that "the car would be perfect." So there you go.

Do you have a link? Or is this just something you think you heard?

Assuming it's accurate, what do you think he should have rather said? Obviously they're working to make the car as "perfect" as they can, but a couple dozen test cars are never going to match a few thousand customer cars when it comes to rooting out problems. This is true of all cars and anyone with half a brain could tell you that. Everyone knows to steer clear of first year cars for exactly this reason. Common sense doesn't cease to exist just because everyone is overhyping a car.

-insert pro-Ford, anti-GM rhetoric-

Dude, you're so far gone it's pointless to argue. You only see what you want to see.

 

[Ezbok58a]

Dude, you're so far gone it's pointless to argue. You only see what you want to see.

Show me where I've said anything that isn't right...

I was looking foward to the new Camaro, I was loving the way the GM press photos made it look. Then I see one without the GM press photographer touch...

I see how tall and ungainly the back of the car is, I see the apparent size of the car, and I feel the interior/ 6spd...

How GM can get the same 6spd Manual to feel so smooth in the GXP G8 but so clunky and long in the SS Camaro is beyond me, but they did it. The Speedo and Tach pods also look idiotic, Its like you have a Giant Eyed Robot Staring back at you. And the Center Console gauges are the most pointless gauge package I've seen just because of where they're located. Seriously, if you sat in one and put the shifter in 1st, 3rd or 5th you can't read the gauges at all. Who thought that was a good idea? Really?

How can they make a great car like the G8 and then screw it up? They did apparently.

Going back to the looks though, I did find one 2010 Camaro that does look good from the back...

^That, looks much better than the way they currently look.

 

[TC]

If you don't like the way it looks and feels, that's fine. But trying to claim that only inbred redneck criminals like Camaros... is a complete lie. There is no doubt about that.

 

[Ezbok58a]

If you don't like the way it looks and feels, that's fine. But trying to claim that only inbred redneck criminals like Camaros... is a complete lie. There is no doubt about that.

Of course it isn't true you jackass. How dense are you?

It'd be fantastically ironic if it were true, but the stereotype got its start in the late 80s or so.

Just like if you have a IROC Z you're a Italian Retard Out CruiZng... :lol:

 

[TC]

Of course it isn't true you jackass. How dense are you?

You sure are throwing around a lot of personal insults for someone who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. How dense am I? Better question is, how dense are you? If I recall, I've pretty much disagreed with everything you've posted in this thread. Why the hell would you think that I believe you? Brush up on your reading comprehension.

And if you don't really believe what you're posting, then why are you wasting your time? Are you just trying to be a troll or something?