Group B vs. WRC

Well I guess people still compete in ralley's nowdays with older group B or similar rally cars.


I guess there is some guy here in oregon who races an S1. It looks a little different that the other S1's that I have seen in the videos. Is it a different type of the S1? is it even an S1?

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And if these cars were supposed to have been banned from racing, how are they allowed to race now? Is it because these rallie's are run by the SCCA which has nothing to do with the cars being banned in europe by the FIA?
 
Note to self: reserve April 21-23, 2006 to going to the above event.

Nice photos on that site BTW.
 
yeah man. I wish I could have gone too. I had no idea they even did rallies around here until I found out after this event.


I am hoping to go to the SCCA regionals tommorow or sunday so I can test out my new dslr.:D It better not rain because it is the basically the last real race at PIR until next year.
 
as i know there are allowed into other events but not rally events...maybe that is a autocross??? or something like that.
also ages back there i was talking about r64s. the driver in questiion is not a wrc champion but would be fast the fastest in ireland and uk in the car. also i dont know if you know him but jimmy mcree raced group b cars back in the day. he just took part iin a rally with his two sons. one of the cars were nearanuff the same while the other was a monster. anyway jimmy ended up in somthing like 50th while the other car was 3rd or 5th. the old drivers im affraid dont have the balls any more there old, cant turn the wheels as fast and left foot braking is a memory prob by now.
there is no contest.
an example is finland. whats the famous stage eeeeemmmmmm (sorry cant remember the name) but petter solburg bet the fastest time on it ever last year and that stage has been used for ages.
 
Some of the pictures were from a rallycross or autocross but most of them are from actualy rallies


I guess what you said about older drivers makes sense. I just watched some interview with Ari and he said he was about a second slower for every few kilometers than he wasa back in the day
 
anto-t said:
an example is finland. whats the famous stage eeeeemmmmmm (sorry cant remember the name) but petter solburg bet the fastest time on it ever last year and that stage has been used for ages.
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Ouninpohja is the one your thinking of.

I'm sure some of our UK members can fill me in on this, but I thought the british rally league or whatever you'd call it, still allowed the Groupe B cars to compete.

IMO, if you take a Group B car with EVERYTHING from 1985 with Walter Rohl behind the wheel, on the same course as say Seb. Loeb on that course with his Xsara, the Xsara would win. Only because tires have come quite far, turbocharging has come quite a bit, and with an HP limit, they concentrate on torque/powerband which is WAY more important than outright power on any rally but those with long straits. Plus they have the benefits of all the electronic's to help them maintain traction, modern aerodynamics and so on.

BTW, Stig Blomquist still drives. He actually does the SCCA Pro Rally. He was even shown on the Recent pikes peak hill climb, and for a couple of years before this one, he was taking a Ford RS200 Evo with 900hp up it, trying to beat the Records Rohl and Vatinen set, and/or better yet, Millens. On the last one he entered with that car, the brakes went out 4 miles up, and he made it to the top and had his quickest times ever.

I nominate Stig Blomquist behind the wheel of whatever B car he thinks is the best one, against Seb. Loeb and his Xsara in 2 stages of Monte Carlo, 2 in finland, and 2 up Pikes Peak (so I can see it in person damn it!)

edit:

Audi S1 has the best exhaust not of all but 1 other race engine IN history...

If your wondering whats number one, It's the ol' Offy. Bonus points to anyone who knows why that engine is one of the greatest of all time.
 
Thrasher said:
Well I guess people still compete in ralley's nowdays with older group B or similar rally cars.


I guess there is some guy here in oregon who races an S1. It looks a little different that the other S1's that I have seen in the videos. Is it a different type of the S1? is it even an S1?

And if these cars were supposed to have been banned from racing, how are they allowed to race now? Is it because these rallie's are run by the SCCA which has nothing to do with the cars being banned in europe by the FIA?
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That is most likely an S1, they had several trim levels. The Pikes Peak edition being the most nutty for Aero.

SCCA might allow them on the Rally cross because for the most part, it's very safe, and u can't get upto that high of a speed. As far as stage rally goes, their Highest class follows nearly exactly the same rules as the FIA Group A rules. Keep in mind tho, SCCA no longer runs the US rally program, as they couldn't afford insurance on it.
 
Kids that dont know much I see here on this board.

Todays WRC cars would blow a Group B car away easy.

the B cars was bloody fast on straights but not in the corners where todays WRC cars go many many times faster then those old ones.

You dont need a special driver to drive them as someone said on page one.
You need a special driver to drive a WRC car at the limit.
Not a Group B car.


TG had a Group B car on once in the old super cars vs new cars and it was slower then the Focus RS production car around the track.
 
no .. it was slover then the EVO 8 MR FQ-360 ... the old 70-s rally Escort was slower then the Ford Focus RS..

PS: the Audi used in that episod was from 1983.. the first year of GroupB .. take one from 86 and it WILL beat a production car .... but not a WRC car..
 
Scud said:
Kids that dont know much I see here on this board.

You dont need a special driver to drive them as someone said on page one.
You need a special driver to drive a WRC car at the limit.
Not a Group B car.
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:shock: u dont need a special driver to drive a Group B car? and you call people kids that dont know much... :roll:


watch any rally documentary and you will see that groub b cars were so much more difficult to drive. plus, just think about it..tons of turbo lag with huge power but with weak brakes and poor handling (compared to todays standards).
 
Well you need a special driver to drive either car, But I think that someone able to drive Gr. B to the limit would be able to adjust quickly to modern WRC. I don't think it would be as easy or quick for WRC drivers nowdays to adjust to a Gr. B car


thedguy said:
Audi S1 has the best exhaust not of all but 1 other race engine IN history...

If your wondering whats number one, It's the ol' Offy. Bonus points to anyone who knows why that engine is one of the greatest of all time.
Click to expand...




another one of the best sounds is the old BRM V16. I think it was in the old BRM grand prix cars

listen here http://www.farzadsf1gallery.com/f1_sounds/brm_v16.mp3
 
That pic above looks like a kit car ... ;)

This link is a good read ... http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Cars_Background3.html

We get to see all the Group B Rally cars in action everyear at the Rally of the Lakes in Ireland, they all run the stages before the WRC cars and yes I mean the WRC cars, but they run non competitively ...

So far, I've seen the Quattro Sport RS200, 205T16, Lancia 037, Manta , Mazda (dont know the model), Metro 6R4 and a rake of Renault 5 GT Turbos .... In the last 12 months :thumbsup:

Photos taken at this years Rally of the Lakes, Jealous ?
:lol:
Mr. McRae in his 00 MKII Escort running approx 350bhp
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If you would like to feel even more sick take a look at the full range of WRC cars in Ireland on www.crspics.com


:lol:
 
^^^^^^^
Thats it, I'm moving my ass to Ireland. I've always wanted to visit it anyway.


I think what he ment by "no special driver" was that you could plop any current skilled rally driver in one and they could do fairly well. Many older drivers have said that they couldn't drive the newer cars like the younger drivers can. They have to much electronics and what not that they just don't understand. I believe Stig Blomquist said so on one of the many DVD's I have on rallying.

I forgot that FG compared the Evo VI to the Audi quattro long wheel base (i.e. NOT a group B) and Tiff cheated and still got beat.

Why don't we just e-mail Top Gear and throw the idea at them. Give the cars to the stig and let them have at it.
 
just to tell ye you can download irish rally programs at my site
http://irishrallyvideos.com

also about the cars, one wrc car there at teh weekend. the driver felt that he wasent getting enuff speed so they uped the rpm to 9000rpm so he could reach 149.9mph. down irish country roads.
yes it did look very good as he nearly went off.
and an other fact ireland has teh most rally cars per person in the world, and at the big events we have over 30-40 wrc at the start ramp. (thats more than the wrc itself)
a and suport the rally ireland movement to get a wrc event on ireland here: http://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/goireland
that my plug for irish rallying done for today :lol:
 
Here's a few thoughts on comparison between Group. B and current WRC cars. There may be slight errors on the figures, I don't have time to check them all.

Acceleration:

On a straight line, a group B car would have a clear edge over a modern WRC car. This is because of more power, 450-600bhp from group B cars against modern 350-400bhp. Also, minimum weight nowadays is 1230kg + fuel, while the group B Lancia Delta S4 and Peugeot 205 T16 had 890kg minimum weight. Audi had a bigger engine and this increased it's minimum weight to 980kgs. Of course, it also had much more power.

On stage:

WRC cars will absolutely blast their older rivals away whenever there's anything more than a bend ahead. The 4WD systems in mid-eighties were very crude. While the Quattro didn't even have a central differential(eg. all tyres were linked together), nobody even dreamt about active diffs. The cars were much more spectacular in the corners because they were driven sideways, the modern cars look as if they're going slow because the active diffs, aerodynamics and such give them much more grip. Remember, sliding always costs momentum.

Endurance:

Rallying as a sport has changed in the last 20 years. While group B cars had to be designed to take up to 100km stages and thousands of stage kilometres during each event, the modern cars only do less than 500km over a whole event. I have no doubt that group B cars could have been much faster if they had been designed for sprint events such as the modern rallies.
 
Dont forget thet the Ford RS200 needed to have it engine rebulit after 10.000km .. todays WRC cars dont ..
Endurance: WRC cars rule..
On the stage: WRC cars rule
Acceleration: 50/50 .. why?.. on Is and graval th eWRC cars rule .. better 4wd systems.. better engines.. better tires..
on tarmac the power may give the GroupeB cars the edge
 
Kebab gud said:
Dont forget thet the Ford RS200 needed to have it engine rebulit after 10.000km .. todays WRC cars dont ..
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How do you know what the need for a rebuild is? To my knowledge, all the factory teams rebuild their engines after they have done the two events one engine has to.

Not jumping at your argument, just curious...
 
ok

right after 2 events a wrc cars is trown again sold to a privatere. gone completely, the engine has to last 2 events thats it witch is about 800km.
even over here we have one guy who owns 2 wrc s9 s gets a new engine every weekend.(after every rally) and then we have the ones who get a complete rebuild of the car after every 2-3 events.
 
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