It's Offical: I'm Tired of Four-Cylinders

[Samir]

You cant make it handle decently without going to IRS. But yes, the Cobra IRS is designed to bolt right onto to the Mustang... Since I just got a 'Stang I've been doing some reading:

Finally, there is the Mustang Cobra's independent rear suspension (IRS). Ford designed this IRS so that it attaches to the 1979-2004 Mustang's stock suspension mounting points. That somewhat compromised the performance of the IRS, but it means that the unit can be bolted into any late model Mustang chassis. The IRS subsystem is about 70 lbs. heavier than a solid rear axle, which contributes a better front/rear weight distribution, and it reduces the car's unsprung weight by about 125 lbs.

Full article: http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/t_suspension2.htm

 

[thedguy]

You cant make it handle decently without going to IRS. But yes, the Cobra IRS is designed to bolt right onto to the Mustang... Since I just got a 'Stang I've been doing some reading:

WHAT!? Maximum Motorsports makes plenty of parts to make a Mustang handle quite well. Granted some of their stuff gets expensive you don't have to go that hardcore. There are plenty of inexpensive things that can be done to make a solid axle car handle.

I don't know where you guys get off thinking that just because a car has a solid rear axle it can't change directions. You guys notice that Clarkson felt the Roush Mustang drove quite nicely (until he put it against a Lotus Exige)? It had a solid rear. When NASCAR hits up Sonoma and has to make left and right turns, they don't suddenly remove the 1960's truck based solid axle rear suspension. Lastly, First generation RX-7's had live-axles and they could keep up with any of the IRS competition the Europeans could through at them.

Oh and BTW, Mustang Cobra owners have been known to rip the IRS out of their cars for solid axles since they are both stronger and can actually put power down.

edit: /rant

Personally I'd still go for the Supra, but the Mustang or Camaro/firebird aren't far behind it. The American cars are notoriously easy to modify for more power, and have good chassis' underneath them, the suspension just needs tuning. You might be surprised at what a Z28 can do with just an aggressive front end alignment and some quality tires.

BTW, do you require a manual transmission? What about modifying it or working on the car at all? If you're willing to do a trans swap (they only come with Automatics) a 3.0 (7m-ge) Cressida can make for a kick ass sleeper. It's a common chassis in Japan and parts are still available for it, the engine/driveline interchanges heavily with the Supra, and with some nice wheels and cleaned up body work, they can look damn good. The last Cressida's were basically a Lexus, just Toyota didn't actually start up the Lexus brand at the time.

 

[JCE]

If I had to have a FWD, the Honda Prelude -- which I have also driven -- is one of the very few cars I would consider, next to a Nissan Sentra SE-R. I can't say anything for the Contour SVT as I haven't driven one.

I owned a 1998 200SX SE-R (see at the end of the post for pics) and they are an absolute brilliant drive. They are much quicker that one would imagine for only 140bhp 132lb.ft. of torque. I scared mid/late 90's Mustang GT's with thoe badboys at the lights (stock Mustangs of course). I'd still prefer the Contour SVT slightly over the 200SX mainly because out of the box they are quicker and easier to find than the SE-Rs.

Been to a lot of autocrosses or road races with that Infiniti or your two gigantic trucks?

I'd wager not. Show up to any random event and chances are almost a lock you will find a 90 something Mustang, or any of those other cars, there.

And an enthusiastic kid with a broken old Mustang or F-Body can be more of a true enthusiast than some schmuck with more money than personality in a brand new 911, M3, or, say, an Infiniti. Unless, by enthusiast, you mean "superficial badge whore".

I've give you +rep if this forum had it. That post is brilliant.

There's nothing wrong with a 90-something Mustang.

But the trap there is...are you talking about a 4.6 or a 5.0? If we're talking about the squareish mustangs that ran from the mid 1980s to the early 90s...those cars aren't going to be particularly fast by today's standards. The 1989 Mustang GT I had, for example, had 185hp and would almost certainly get hosed by a current generation V6 Mustang. And the handling wasn't much to write home about.

The foxbody Mustang GT with the 302ci 5.0L V8 is possibly the most modifiable car you can get next to a Honda Civic. I've personally built TWO foxbody drag cars, so trust me when I tell you that you can easily and cheaply not only make them fast but actually make them handle quite well on a track/circuit. Just because they have a live axle doesn't mean that they can't handle well on a track. But going IRS would make them a huge monster on the track.

Something I've seen at autocrosses and is pretty good is the Neon SRT-4. Not super refined, but a good handling and nimble car from what I've seen of it. It's slightly higher than the money you've been talking about, but not by much.

SRT-4's are the best thing to come from Dodge in a while, too bad they are officially dead. I don't count the Calibur as being an actual working vehicle since its complete rubbish.

I would be looking at the 5.0L V8 (225 HP, 300 lb-ft). I have driven one before, and it is wicked-scary fast by my books.

Maybe not wickedly fast, but fast nonetheless. A 5spd 5.0 Mustang is some serious fun on the street and track. And they make a particularly awsome noise too.

You cant make it handle decently without going to IRS. But yes, the Cobra IRS is designed to bolt right onto to the Mustang... Since I just got a 'Stang I've been doing some reading:

I'd strongly disagree with you. You can infact make the Mustang a good handling car without an IRS. Look at the ZO6, it handles incredible for a reletively rudamentary suspension. It can be done.

WHAT!? Maximum Motorsports makes plenty of parts to make a Mustang handle quite well. Granted some of their stuff gets expensive you don't have to go that hardcore. There are plenty of inexpensive things that can be done to make a solid axle car handle.

Exactly my point.

I don't know where you guys get off thinking that just because a car has a solid rear axle it can't change directions. You guys notice that Clarkson felt the Roush Mustang drove quite nicely (until he put it against a Lotus Exige)? It had a solid rear. When NASCAR hits up Sonoma and has to make left and right turns, they don't suddenly remove the 1960's truck based solid axle rear suspension. Lastly, First generation RX-7's had live-axles and they could keep up with any of the IRS competition the Europeans could through at them.

Those are great points.

Oh and BTW, Mustang Cobra owners have been known to rip the IRS out of their cars for solid axles since they are both stronger and can actually put power down.

Happends every day down here.

Personally I'd still go for the Supra, but the Mustang or Camaro/firebird aren't far behind it. The American cars are notoriously easy to modify for more power, and have good chassis' underneath them, the suspension just needs tuning. You might be surprised at what a Z28 can do with just an aggressive front end alignment and some quality tires.

Z28's and Irocs with posi are great cars to modify for not only power but some fun in the twisties. Even my stock 305ci V8 Camaro with the 700R4 slushbox handles pretty good considering its size and weight. I can take corners almost as fast as my Prelude.


================================

My old SE-R:

 

[Top Geek]

The VW Corrado VR6 has a V6, and is the car I want next!

There was actually one in the Auto Trader this past week, but VWs are prohibitively expensive to maintain and repair for me.

 

[mattjm321]

Been to a lot of autocrosses or road races with that Infiniti or your two gigantic trucks?

I'd wager not. Show up to any random event and chances are almost a lock you will find a 90 something Mustang, or any of those other cars, there.

And an enthusiastic kid with a broken old Mustang or F-Body can be more of a true enthusiast than some schmuck with more money than personality in a brand new 911, M3, or, say, an Infiniti. Unless, by enthusiast, you mean "superficial badge whore".

Oh you mean the type of racing where people time each other around cones in a small parking lot and nobody goes fast enough to actually get scared? Bad ass dude. I've been to Virginia, you don't know anything about where I've raced. You don't know anything about my background except the cars I drive and where I'm from (which also has a good bit of motorsport history).

Go murder someone with your Trans Am and weak transmission.

 

[BerserkerCatSplat]

They stage road races in parking lots in North Carolina? Kinda defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

 

[mattjm321]

Virginia International Raceway

 

[thedguy]

Virginia International Raceway

I fail to see how an autocross on a rough parking lot or air strip with a changing course layout is not a fair test. It's still racing, it still pushes a cars handling, arguably more so than a road course with a bunch of long straights, and it seems to be more accessible/common to those who want to use their daily driver as a weekend race car.

Get off your high horse. You're on an internet forum talking about cars fry crying out loud.

 

[_HighVoltage_]

I don't think a 1990-1992 Firebird/Camaro wil lgive you that much power...they look good though.
I would suggest a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR6/Dodge Stealth R/T. I quite like those cars and they go for about 12000usd.
Another suggestion is a BMW 540i - it's not exactly sporty, but it's an amazingly good car.

 

[thedguy]

I don't think a 1990-1992 Firebird/Camaro wil lgive you that much power...they look good though.
I would suggest a Mitsubishi 3000GT VR6/Dodge Stealth R/T. I quite like those cars and they go for about 12000usd.
Another suggestion is a BMW 540i - it's not exactly sporty, but it's an amazingly good car.

Their weight negates any benefits to having a twin turbo v6. I can second the 540i especially if he finds a 6speed with the sport suspension. Though maintenance costs could be an issue.

 

[mattjm321]

Meh I'm not the one getting stuffy. I applaud people who autocross, but you can't honestly (with a straight face) argue that autocrossing pushes the limits more than a road course. Well thats enough pissing contest.

 

[thedguy]

Meh I'm not the one getting stuffy.

"Oh you mean the type of racing where people time each other around cones in a small parking lot and nobody goes fast enough to actually get scared? Bad ass dude. I've been to Virginia"

That sounds pretty arrogant to me.

I applaud people who autocross, but you can't honestly (with a straight face) argue that autocrossing pushes the limits more than a road course. Well thats enough pissing contest.

For the most part you're right, but for the sake of this discussion it more than does the job. Given the tight confines of the course Autocrossing seems to me to always favor cars that can handle very well and take tight corners at high speeds, which would explain why cars like the Mini and Miata are favorites, but on road courses it always seems the bigger high powered cars.

The impression I have is that the Epp_B is at most going to be doing some AutoX and "spirited" driving. Spirited driving in my opinion tends to keep speeds on back roads well below 80MPH. For this same reason a friend of mine wants to pick up a Lotus Elise, he can have loads of fun at legal and safe speeds.

 

[cdbob]

As much as I hate the fact my car is not very fast, it is also nice because it limits what I can do in terms of stupid driving and it also saves gas because I tend to drive normally due to the fact that its not worth accelerating because it's just noise and no speed.

 

[mattjm321]

That sounds pretty arrogant to me.

Sorry I had to defend myself. The kid pulled the "you couldn't drive that truck thing, you don't autocross."


^I really like the old 740s and I agree with you. Driving a slow car fast can be more fun than driving a fast car fast.

 

[thedguy]

As much as I hate the fact my car is not very fast, it is also nice because it limits what I can do in terms of stupid driving and it also saves gas because I tend to drive normally due to the fact that its not worth accelerating because it's just noise and no speed.

Same here. I'm notice that when I'm driving my car I have a lot less problems with people on the road than my brother. He insists upon being in front and must do 80 or so in the freeway no matter what. I've timed my trips and I don't take any longer to get to the same destination.

Oh and I have no problem getting 35mpg (US gallon) with the A/C on. If I wasn't trying to get the Miata running I'd be tempted to put better suspension on the skirmish buggy...

 

[Steve Levin]

There no doubt you can make a Mustang do very well. I had a 2001 Saleen S281 for a couple of years and it was very cool.

But once you get into serious, major modifications to something, my first question is: What could you have bought with car + mod money in the first place?

Especially because some of the last Mustangs (2003-2004) that are Cobras came from the factory with supercharged 390hp engines and IRS. And you can probably still get extended warranties on them.

Heck, I think I sold my 2001 in 2003 for 25 or 26K, and it had just 20,000 miles on it at the time.

Steve

 

[JCE]

Especially because some of the last Mustangs (2003-2004) that are Cobras came from the factory with supercharged 390hp engines and IRS.

I know you know that they really didn't have 390BHP at the crank...

More like 370~380RWHP and 420~430-ish at the crank. The '03-'04 Cobra is the most underrated car on horsepower that I've ever seen. They are crazy fast--especially when modded. Something as simple as a pulley swap nets you some serious extra power. (you having owned an S281 you knew that already)

I just came in here to post that.

 

[Top Geek]

I should clarify something: I really don't plan to make any modifications. I am not a mechanic, nor do I pretend to be one.

Which is why, instead of doing a bunch of work on my car (brakes, suspension, clutch, wheels & tires, turbo, etc.), I'd rather buy a car that is sufficient performance-wise for my taste.

 

[zenkidori]

buy an E30 or E36 M3, you will not regret it.

 

[thedguy]

buy an E30 or E36 M3, you will not regret it.

He will when he has to work on in it... or pay someone else to. E36's have a reputation for ripping the floor of the trunkup due to poorly engineered diff mounts.

E30's... the only good ones have 4 cylinders in them

I should clarify something: I really don't plan to make any modifications. I am not a mechanic, nor do I pretend to be one.

Which is why, instead of doing a bunch of work on my car (brakes, suspension, clutch, turbo, etc.), I'd rather buy a car that is sufficient performance-wise for my taste.

MKIII Turbo Supra with the 5 speed. It's an 80's Toyota, so it's cheap, reliable, and strong. Get a mechanic to take care of the head gasket properly and it'll serve you well for years to come.