Health Care in Europe

I have a question. As far as actual treatment is concerned, on average....is the healthcare provided better in the US than in other countries...or vice-versa?

I'd like to see some statistics on that.


And in the movie at least, there was quite a bit of focus on the costs of prescription drugs.
 
We have pretty much the same system as Adunaphel described, the basic service is free (you pay a percentage of your income, which has a top border, so if you earn more than 5000 per month you dont pay any more)
If you don't like that you can insure yourself on a private basis by going to a insurance and just selecting the coverage you like.
Its a pretty good system imho and makes sure what should me made sure, everybody getting medical treatment when they need it. We don't have stupid stuff like pre-approval for doctor visits here, etc.
 
Adunaphel said:
Not entirely true. I'm no expert on the rest of Europe, but in The Netherlands there is something as compulsory health insurance. The basic compulsory package covers a range of common healthcare necessities such as visits to your GP, basic medicines, hospitalisation costs, etc. at a fixed maximum price set by the government. But there's a lot of things that are not insured. You can opt to get insurance for those things, or not and hope you'll never need them. Insurance companies cannot refuse to insure you for the basic package, they can however refuse additional packages or charge you extra for them based on your medical history.
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Good description of the dutch system, but you forget that the insurance company also gets a percentage of your income. In the first two incomebrackets (up to ?31.122) you pay 12% AWBZ, but since that gets taken from your salary most people count it as part of the income tax and forget it. I wonder why :p Health care seems so cheap otherwise. :lol:
On a sidenote, I think the NHS is crap, most people I know can be bothered with it and just pay privately for their medical care or fly somewhere else to get things done. The NHS is the most socialistic healt care system in Europe, fully paid out of taxes without leaving any choice about service to the consumers. The docters in the UK are also heavely underpaid.
 
I'd like to add that US tax payers pay for for health care than any other country (percentage wise). And most of us don't get shit. Legally here, everyone is required to be able to be insured, but they never put a cap on how much one has to pay.

I'm a fan of a better regulated industry, mainly one that has to make it possible for ANYONE with any form of job to be able to get any level of insurance from basic, to "everything it taken care of" without breaking the bank. For those that don't have jobs at least basic health care should be covered.

One question I would like to add is, how far do the various European countries have education paid for? I recall reading that Norway has College/University paid for everyone through taxes. Or are those who decide to become doctors given some form of special loans or grants?
This is one thing Moore's movie didn't address. School to become a GP by itself is in the $100k range if I'm not mistaken, and even more to become a specialist.

Oh and lastly, for the countries with the option to go with a Private insurance, can you take that out from your taxes since your no longer using the government system?
 
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thedguy said:
I'd like to add that US tax payers pay for for health care than any other country (percentage wise). And most of us don't get shit. Legally here, everyone is required to be able to be insured, but they never put a cap on how much one has to pay.

I'm a fan of a better regulated industry, mainly one that has to make it possible for ANYONE with any form of job to be able to get any level of insurance from basic, to "everything it taken care of" without breaking the bank. For those that don't have jobs at least basic health care should be covered.

One question I would like to add is, how far do the various European countries have education paid for? I recall reading that Norway has College/University paid for everyone through taxes. Or are those who decide to become doctors given some form of special loans or grants?
This is one thing Moore's movie didn't address. School to become a GP by itself is in the $100k range if I'm not mistaken, and even more to become a specialist.

Oh and lastly, for the countries with the option to go with a Private insurance, can you take that out from your taxes since your no longer using the government system?
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until recently studying at public universitys in germany was free of charge except for a small "semester-fee" for various administrational purposes and a public transport ticket (around 150-250? per term.)

however, most states have now started to make students pay tuition of around 500? per term. special loans are available for those who need them.

students whose parents have a low income can also get up to around 500? in financial support each month, although half of it has to be paid back after you have finished (its without interest though.)
 
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Hidden_Hunter said:
oh ok, poor people don't deserve treatment silly me
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Many believe that they should not have to pay for it. This relates to the history I was speaking of.
 
Something else I'd like to point out (though myself I don't agree with) is that many American's will argue "This is a Socialists/Commy ideal, we've fought countless wars for the last 80 years to fight those Red bastards!" My response to that is "Whats wrong with helping others live?"

Honestly I think a lot of American's are just flat out selfish. We always here of stories about how communities will work together to help someone out. We've got show's like "Extreme Make-Over: Home edition" which ironically helps quite a few who are screwed over by our wonderful medical system.

jetsetter said:
Many believe that they should not have to pay for it. This relates to the history I was speaking of.
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I'd like you to elaborate a bit on that. I know a lot of people throw around the word free, when they still understand that it may actually mean "Paid for by the state and therefore the tax dollars." Some have argued that our inalienable rights include Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Though no hospital can legally deny anyone emergency care (doesn't stop them from dumping people off who can't pay anyway).

It's hard to have life when you can't afford your medical bills. If ones in dept up to their eye balls due to medical bills said person is going to have a hard to pursuing happiness now aren't they? Of course I could use the same argument to say that all food and drinks should be taken care of by the state as well. I'm still working on that "I can't pursue happiness without a Gallardo" argument. :thumbsup: Once I do, law school hear I come :D
 
-Cpt. J.- said:
And you're the one that gets mad when people post generalizations/assumptions about Americans. ^_^ Funny indeed. Doctors get paid very very well in Finland atleast. I think it is one of the best paying jobs(?). In Top 5 for sure if you're a doctor who specializes in a certain area. Anyway they are far from underpayed and I think doctors work long days all over the world.
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I openly said that I didn't know. I know doctors get paid well, but do they get paid more then those in the private sector? Thats what I'm talking about.
 
TomCat said:
I openly said that I didn't know. I know doctors get paid well, but do they get paid more then those in the private sector? Thats what I'm talking about.
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One of the misconceptions about our system is that the Insurance companies have been doing a lot to keep Doctors pay down. While it's definitely nothing to scoff at, their pay hasn't been going up at the rate it should have.

The other thing is, the private sector wants to maximize profits, so doctors are getting paid not to treat patients. Obviously they talked about it a bit on the Moore movie, but one other thing he missed was what happened to my dad. Paid faithfully on his insurance for years, when he needed them to pay for a surgery, they folded, and he got stuck with the bill.

In contrast, the Moore film claims, Doctors get paid better and better benefits if their patients are healthier and kept that way.
 
Something else I'd like to point out (though myself I don't agree with) is that many American's will argue "This is a Socialists/Commy ideal, we've fought countless wars for the last 80 years to fight those Red bastards!" My response to that is "Whats wrong with helping others live?"
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I actually think it goes farther back than that. We hear stories about the West, the frontier, exploration, etc. People fighting and working to create themselves a life without help from a government.
 
jetsetter said:
I actually think it goes farther back than that. We hear stories about the West, the frontier, exploration, etc. People fighting and working to create themselves a life without help from a government.
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Ah thats what you were getting at. That mentality is practically dead in this country. Just about everyone wants the government to do everything for them. Especially take care of their damn kids (I swear I hear about one more retard wanting a TV show canceled because he/she can't be bothered to just change the fucking channel, I'm gonna go postal).
 
This whole thing with private insurance and government insurance, private hospitals and government hospitals sound kind of like public schools and private schools. What are the differences? I know over here you pay a lot more to put a kid in private school but supposedly the education they'll receive is much better. Is the same true of a private hospital. I need more info.
 
One thing I forgot to mention was how Moore talks about "Infant Mortality Rates." Those are EXTREMELY unreliable numbers to work off of. While there is a "standard" it's not really followed. The US says anything that comes out with any form of a beating heart is a living baby, including anything premature. Switzerland has a size requirement, I want to say at least 72cm tall, but I can't remember for sure on the size. This makes our numbers look really bad.

I've also been told the US health care system is more willing to spend more time trying to make someone who is on the verge of death survive vs other countries. This is also why we have cases like the Terry Shiavo ordeal with people who are brain dead living via machines for years on end.
 
People with normal income pay aroun 500 euros for one year in my school (kind of university, so for pupils over 18). If you have a special treatment that can be as low as 150 or something. However, there come other costs too like books and so. But again, people with lower income (only one parent earns money and there are three children, for example) can get an amount of money from the government to help cover the costs of going to school and living in a different city (sometimes that's up to 2000 euro a year). Then there are cheap apartments too for those people which cost about 150 euro per month (compared to at minimum 200 for a regular one, although the cheaper kind is really small).
School is very affordable here in Belgium and almost everybody goes to a "public" school. In fact there is almost no reason at all why a person wouldn't go to study after his highschool, except if he's too dumb :)
If you have to pay it all yourself it's quite expensive off course, but the biggest cost isn't the school money but the money to live in a different city, since most pupils go to study in a big city away from their hometown.

@Thedguy, in Belgium there is a lot of commotion about "euthanasia" too, but we don't file millliondollar lawsuits about it which headline CNN ;-) A lot of people are complaining that doctors try to keep patients alive as long as possible even if their life is terrible or is completely unexistant. But lately there have been some investments in "terminal care" which consists of specially trained personnel and hospital rooms based on "dying in peace" where the treatment is focused on pain-reduction and having valuable last weeks with your family in a friendly, cosy environment.
 
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thedguy said:
One question I would like to add is, how far do the various European countries have education paid for? I recall reading that Norway has College/University paid for everyone through taxes. Or are those who decide to become doctors given some form of special loans or grants?
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Student loans, takes time to pay back, but there's quite nice terms.

TomCat said:
I openly said that I didn't know. I know doctors get paid well, but do they get paid more then those in the private sector? Thats what I'm talking about.
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Isn't that much a difference.

jetsetter said:
I actually think it goes farther back than that. We hear stories about the West, the frontier, exploration, etc. People fighting and working to create themselves a life without help from a government.
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Yes, the American Dream. A nice dream, not a very nice bacis for real politics.
 
thedguy said:
One question I would like to add is, how far do the various European countries have education paid for? I recall reading that Norway has College/University paid for everyone through taxes. Or are those who decide to become doctors given some form of special loans or grants?
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Here in Denmark every goverment approved education (Pretty much all educations unless it's some weird hippie stuff or something like that) is free, paid for through tax. Off course your grades have to be good to get into the more attractive educations, like becomming a doctor. You even get about 560 ? after tax every month from the state the first 6 years of your education. You can also get special loans.
Only thing you have to pay for is books...

Oh, and the danish health insurance, paid for through tax, covers everything.
 
In Finland pretty much like in Denmark it seems. Universities are free for foreigners also, but do hurry because they are thinking of putting a fee for foreign students.

The student loans are backed by the goverment so banks dont have to worry about realiability. Once I start this fall Ill be getting 460? montly for living expenses and additional ~200? for rent from the goverment. And while I calculated my rent would be something ~250?, ill still have some money to save.

Elementary through highschool you also get free public transport.
 
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