Breaking news: Blast hit Norwegian government building in Oslo

Putting something down to "just evil" is a defeatist attitude, holding your hands up and refusing to try to have any control on the situation. It's like people praying instead of doing things to improve their situation.

What control of what situation are you referring to? The deed is done and the motives are clear. It was hate. So it's not far-fetched to say, that this guy was a bad person. In our modern, open and liberal societies I feel we sometimes are trying to relativize things too much, when we need to clearly address somethig bad as what it is.

I'm currently waiting for one of his neighbours telling to a camera something like this: "I cannot believe he did that. He always greeted me in the mornings and has always been nice with his dogs"...
 
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I believe there is no one else to blame for his crimes, than him. It is my understanding, that there is nothing wrong with the Norwegian population at all but psychopaths can grow up anywhere.
No man is an island. While some of his character traits can be explained by genetics, he's still very much a product of his upbringing and surroundings. We all are. He didn't pick his ideas and ideology out of thin air.

Dismissing him as a "just a crazy guy" completely ignores the role his surroundings played in shaping him, and I don't think that is wise.
 
No man is an island. While some of his character traits can be explained by genetics, he's still very much a product of his upbringing and surroundings. We all are. He didn't pick his ideas and ideology out of thin air.

Dismissing him as a "just a crazy guy" completely ignores the role his surroundings played in shaping him, and I don't think that is wise.

I wasn't promoting anything like that. Also I didn't say that there shouldn't be drawn any consequences from this. If you read my first posting on this thread, you'll see my point of view.

It's just that I cannot share this "where did we fail as a society?" questions, when someone runs amok. Because I don't think society failed. If we are honest, everyone of us knows some person, who's views are strange but dismiss it by not taking them serious. I for one can name two or three coworkers of mine, who I could do without in my life, because they act/talk strange and behave weirdly.

If one of them runs amok, do I have to blame myself for not giving alarm?
 
I think that's impossible. There's so much proverbial mud on the web, that we can't give attention to all of it. There's probably manifestos like this one all over the net in different forms, and most will never amount to anything.
You are correct if taken literally, but what I mean is that political debate should allow radical or extremist views already before anything happens, whereas currently they are suppressed, swept away and hidden. If they are mud (which they truly in most cases are), debates will prove them wrong.
 
just came back from the church, we delivered some +2000 candle lights

http://img11.imageshack.**/img11/7127/47809740.jpg

http://img535.imageshack.**/img535/6030/47401932.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.**/img221/4472/61270691.jpg
 
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The police has called out a new press conference in a short time. This has affected our family, I will not get into details on that.
 
I believe there is no one else to blame for his crimes, than him. It is my understanding, that there is nothing wrong with the Norwegian population at all but psychopaths can grow up anywhere.



I didn't want to hurt your feelings and surely didn't tell you what to do and I definitely can understand your feelings. I was only trying to give you advice to not hurt yourself more and more by digging into the thoughts of that maniac. I'm sorry, if you got me wrong.

In the end it is of course completely up to you, how you deal with the situation and your emotions. But of one thing I am sure: That there is no way to foresee or prevent such acts by determined and deranged individuals, no matter where you live and how well your society works.

No worries, we alle deal with tragedy in different ways.
 
I know I'm late to this but my sincerest condolences to anybody in Norway affected by this and to the whole of the Norwegian nation after such a horrific tragedy.

On a related topic, I have just been onto the BBC news website to read the latest and was appalled when I glanced at the 'most popular stories' box:

http://img195.imageshack.**/img195/17/news1l.png
http://img543.imageshack.**/img543/5974/news3j.png
http://img811.imageshack.**/img811/3729/news2.png

This is what is wrong with this celebrity obsessed culture, when people are more interested in the death of one woman who basically killed herself than that of 80+ innocent people, some of them children, simply because that woman was 'famous'.
 
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This has affected our family, I will not get into details on that.
My deepest condolences. Here, from my balcony I see Finnish national flags in half mast to show support for your grief.
 
I know I'm late to this but my sincerest condolences to anybody in Norway affected by this and to the whole of the Norwegian nation after such a horrific tragedy.

On a related topic, I have just been onto the BBC news website to read the latest and was appalled when I glanced at the 'most popular stories' box:


This is what is wrong with this celebrity obsessed culture, when people are more interested in the death of one woman who basically killed herself than that of 80+ innocent people, some of them children, simply because that woman was 'famous'.

no surprise, really
 
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My deepest condolences. Here, from my balcony I see Finnish national flags in half mast to show support for your grief.

much appreciated
 
I have no words for what happened there. First of all, my condolences to all people who lost someone in this terrible act and to the Norwegian people in general. And I second the admiration for how well the Norwegian politicians handle this, you should be proud.

Secondly, this is a terrorist attack as it has never been seen before, and it shows how this feeling of security we are given is just a shadow. Yes, we might be protected against "big" terrorist groups, but a sick mind will slip unnoticed until he can act. It shows, how a normal (I assume highly intelligent) guy can build a bomb and go on a killing spree before being stopped. I must say, the tactical planning he did was, in a very sick way, genious. Distract, hit in remote location that can only be accessed via air and sea. The preparation he put into this is just mind boggling, and shows in a very sad way how all this security talk is a lie. He observed, planned and executed his own sick plan within the limitations of Norwegian Police capabilities, if you are determined to do a terrorist attack you will succeed as long as you don't brag about it beforehand. This was a - sadly - perfect terror attack. Strike in the most unlikely place, hit as many uninvolved (who is?) people as possible, have the most media coverage you can get and survive it. It is just sick. I mean, f.e. all this airport hassle: Important, yes, over the top, yes. But it makes it just a big hassle and risk to go for an airplane, while other targets (like shown here) are unprotected and much "higher value" for a terrorist as they show how it can happen to everyone, you could get shot while buying milk, going to the beach or even on a concert....and there is no way of singling out all the weirdos in the world. Then again, I am "glad" he was a white, christian right wing fanatic and not a muslim or foreigner, as this does not fit the bill of these typical "terror experts" at all.

I have some questions for the Norwegian people here, as I couldn't find anything about that in the news:

- Does Norway allow the military to be dispatched against internal threats? I know that in Germany f.e., our Bundeswehr is forbidden to act against the people, only against foreign threats.
- Can anyone explain me the gun laws? It seems like he massed up guns and ammo legally, is that correct?

To the people shouting for him to be killed now: No, let him rot in jail, show him, that he can't change the moral values of a civilized nation, be better than him.

My thoughts are with you Norway.
 
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news from pressconference:

- no new evidence from the new place they found earlier today

- he had plenty more ammo when caught, so the police hindered more potential killings

- they will not release names as of yet

- no clear motive yet

- emprisonment meeting will be held tomorrow, this will be very interesting, and they have not decided if the meeting will be open or closed
 
I have some questions for the Norwegian people here, as I couldn't find anything about that in the news:
- Does Norway allow the military to be dispatched against internal threats? I know that in Germany f.e., our Bundeswehr is forbidden to act against the people, only against foreign threats.
- Can anyone explain me the gun laws? It seems like he massed up guns and ammo legally, is that correct?

Thank you for kind words.
- As far as I know, yes. Haven't seen it happen before, but in this situation there was no need as the special swat got the call and was on the spot asap.
- They are strict. Although this guy was member of a gunclub (I read that from his notes/ manifest) and that he had registered to guns to his name. And buying ammo is a long process, but it boggles me that he had so much. He must have bought it over quite some time.
 
Some of the eyewitness accounts are terrifying:

We all started to run down to the water, people had already undressed and started swimming. I thought I didn't have enough time to take off my clothes, so I started swimming in the rain, in my clothes and big boots.

I went for about 150 metres but the lake is about 800 metres long. I realised I wouldn't make it so I turned back.

I saw him standing 10 metres from me, shooting at the people who were swimming. He aimed his machine gun at me and I screamed at him, 'No please no, don't do it'. I don't know if he listened to me but he spared me.

He came back an hour later. I was with other survivors and we were lying down and hiding behind the trees and rocks. We were freezing in our wet clothes.

The shooting started again and people were falling on top of me, on my legs and falling into the water - that's when many people died. I just had to shield myself behind them, praying he wouldn't see me. In the middle of the shooting I got a bullet in my back.

Then he came closer, I could feel his breath, I could feel his boots, I could feel the warmth of the barrel. But I didn't move and that's what saved my life.

Again, my deepest sympathies to all those in Norway in this difficult time.
 
Some statistics on terrorist attacks and terrorists arrests in the E.U. during 2010.

Terrorist attacks in the EU in 2010:

Seperatist: 160
Left-Wing: 45
Not specified (UK only): 40
Islamist: 3
Single issue (unique): 1
Right-Wing: 0

Terrorist suspects arrested in 2010:

Seperatist: 349
Islamist: 179
Not specified (UK only): 48
Left-Wing: 34
Right-Wing: 1
Single issue (unique): 0

https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/te-sat2011.pdf

Somewhat surprising to be honest. I did not know that separatists were that active in Europe.
 
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Very moving pictures earleir today from the Cathedral service, seeing your King and Queen crying was very sad.

The BBC are still showing live coverage now, but earlier on today after the main dignitaries had left and the survivors and freinds of those lost were filing out of the church, something very surprising happened.

The BBC TV NEWS, for about fifteen or twenty minutes, showed the people leaving the church IN SILENCE, with just the background noise of people moving about and greeting each other.

No news man chatting or saying anything like they usually have to. The anchor man, Jon Sopel was there, but was just totally quiet.

<---- me :cry:

* * *

Please, let's not feed the troll. Please, don't let this hatefull person spread more of this in this peacefull thread dedicated to all those involved in the tragedy.

Well said, haz.

When I first read it, I could'nt believe what was written there and thought it was a translation error or something.
 
The Police tells us that the car Behring used to hide and detonate the bomb in... was VW Crafter.. loadcapacity of 1435 kgs..

Also, we just heard that one of the first ones that were killed at Ut?ya was an unarmed Policeman, in civillian duty.. (fyi, all Norwegian Police are unarmed, but carry firearms in the policecar which they must get a permit to use in a certain situation)
 
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