You know who did 7'26.70.. and now there's a video proof.

bartboy9891 said:
It depends on your point of view. If you ask most Corvette owners around here, they would say that Porsches are for rich people trying to show off and are driven by sissies. Even mentioning anything Japanese would probably getting you a punch in the face. :D
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*looks at profile* Ahh, Michigan. Well, I guess I can understand that. The Japanese basically took Detroit apart. But most cars get that same treatment. Corvettes are generally considered the car of choice for retired folks who're going through a midlife crisis. And 911's get grouped with M3's as the car of choice for complete cocks. :p
 
TomCat said:
To see a Corvette not only hang with the badgewhore big boys, but beat them? It's vindicating.

I couldn't care less about a Corvette holding a record, it's the fact that they're able to compete at that level that's gratifying.
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I love the C6, but lets face it Corvette is right up there with the best of the badgewhores.
 
Twerp128 said:
I love the C6, but lets face it Corvette is right up there with the best of the badgewhores.
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Well... maybe compared to a Genesis coupe or something along those lines. But the Corvette is nothing compared to anything carrying a BMW, Porsche, Audi, or Ferrari badge. That's like calling a Golf GTi a badgewhore. At least the Corvette is still a Chevrolet. But I see your point, the Corvette is trying to aspire to those levels.
 
With any car good enough to have a following like the 911, Corvette, Mustang, GTR etc. you'll also get the fanboys. It may still be a Chevrolet, but the Corvette has it's own cordoned off pedestal within the family (and unique badge too.) It's ok though, there is a reason people flock to these cars and it's because they're exceptional.
 
Twerp128 said:
With any car good enough to have a following like the 911, Corvette, Mustang, GTR etc. you'll also get the fanboys. It may still be a Chevrolet, but the Corvette has it's own cordoned off pedestal within the family (and unique badge too.) It's ok though, there is a reason people flock to these cars and it's because they're exceptional.
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This is true. Even when Corvettes are sold overseas, they're sold as if they are part of their own brand. You have to remember that the Corvette name has been around even longer than the 911 and Mustang. They're definitely an icon and they do carry around their own kind of badge snobbery.
 
GRtak said:
How about the Cadillac CTS-V at 7:59.32? I would rather have the Caddy myself.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/09/green-hellraiser-caddy-cts-v-storms-nordschleife-in-7-59-32/
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That's my point, it's a crazy fast time and similarly priced but not really in the same league. If I were living in the US then it would certainly be an alternative to the Nissan.

When I compare cars now, I think about the number of seats because a 2 seater is just too impractical when you can only have one car.

That the GT-R is in supercar territory, yet has 4 seats, a boot and is under $100k is still pretty nuts, fanboys or not.
 
hansvonaxion said:
Price, weight, power etc are all irrelevant if you just ask, what's the next fastest 4 seater?
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The next fastest 4 seater would be the 997 Turbo at 7:38, which is a direct counterpart of the GT-R (twinturbo 6 cylinders with 480hp and awd) but at about almost 2x the MSRP.
 
Here's my problem with this whole mess. Not a single manufacturer or magazine has been able to replicate the times with customer cars that Nissan did with their own "special" car or the magazines who have used press cars. The reason why this is an issue is because all these magazines latch onto how much faster the GT-R is than something when in fact it is more or less a lie, and then people who read the blogs or magazines or what have you then start following it and becoming devoted fans despite the fact that a lot of the performance claims aren't genuine. I know some coward will neg-rep me for my comment but it's the simple truth.

The thing is that after having driven one I can say it's entirely underwhelming. Yes it's quick but there is a major flaw in that, anyone can drive that car fast, and that's not a recipe for a good driver's car. There is no sense of reward for working the car just so, instead it just feels rather like a very well designed video game with g-forces added in, but it's nothing like driving a 911 or Z06 where there is a definite challenge in getting the most out of them. Some of you may not mind this trait and other may like it and I'm not saying you're wrong but for me it's a deal breaker.
 
Arctor said:
Here's my problem with this whole mess. Not a single manufacturer or magazine has been able to replicate the times with customer cars that Nissan did with their own "special" car or the magazines who have used press cars. The reason why this is an issue is because all these magazines latch onto how much faster the GT-R is than something when in fact it is more or less a lie, and then people who read the blogs or magazines or what have you then start following it and becoming devoted fans despite the fact that a lot of the performance claims aren't genuine. I know some coward will neg-rep me for my comment but it's the simple truth.
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While I agree with you on that point in that Nissan's claim is quite unbelievable, isn't that true for almost all manufacturer claimed times? Has any independent tester been able to replicate any manufacturer times within a few seconds? GM recently crowned themselves to be the producer of the fastest sedan in the world on the nurburgring (09 CTS-V) and everyone basically believed it and I haven't heard of an indepent replication of that as of yet. And what about that Viper ACR record or the ZR1 or the 997 GT2 or any other manufacurer times for that matter. I don't think I've ever heard of a magazine or any other independent testing that got even within a few sec of the manufacturer's claim(one notable example is the Zonda F Clubsport in which EVO magazine actually ran a time faster than a Zonda conducted test). But I could be wrong.

But of course on such a long track with so many variables it is impossible to have a direct comparison because the testing is not standarized with respect to track temperature, humidity, air density, tire wear, and a bilion other factors. And as many have already said nurburgring is not a very good caliber to compare performance and thus all times are pretty much useless due to the latter part of your post. And so I think both sides have embarrassed themselves.
 
Well I'm just talking generally, not specifically about the 'Ring. Even with all the clever electronics it just can't overcome the sheer mass it has, you can only get so much grip from a given amount of tire no matter how well you design the car.
 
nist7 said:
While I agree with you on that point in that Nissan's claim is quite unbelievable, isn't that true for almost all manufacturer claimed times? Has any independent tester been able to replicate any manufacturer times within a few seconds? GM recently crowned themselves to be the producer of the fastest sedan in the world on the nurburgring (09 CTS-V) and everyone basically believed it and I haven't heard of an indepent replication of that as of yet. And what about that Viper ACR record or the ZR1 or the 997 GT2 or any other manufacurer times for that matter. I don't think I've ever heard of a magazine or any other independent testing that got even within a few sec of the manufacturer's claim(one notable example is the Zonda F Clubsport in which EVO magazine actually ran a time faster than a Zonda conducted test). But I could be wrong.
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Well, the point with the GT-R is that many people claim the numbers don't add up. People believe in the majority of Ring times because they deem them possible. The GT-R however is quicker than the numbers suggest, which is why so many people questioned the times on the stopwatches.
Arctor said:
Well I'm just talking generally, not specifically about the 'Ring. Even with all the clever electronics it just can't overcome the sheer mass it has, you can only get so much grip from a given amount of tire no matter how well you design the car.
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We've had that discussion before, but if you need it: the AWD system of the GT-R engages a tiny slip angle between the front and the rear axle, killing understeer and helping the car around the bend, which increases the speed through the bend as well as the exit speed, since you can floor it much earlier than other cars with this kind of power. That technique is responsible for the quick times it is able to chuck out, at the expense of the tires. No magic involved.
 
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the Interceptor said:
We've had that discussion before, but if you need it: the AWD system of the GT-R engages a tiny slip angle between the front and the rear axle, killing understeer and helping the car around the bend, which increases the speed through the bend as well as the exit speed, since you can floor it much earlier than other cars with this kind of power. That technique is responsible for the quick times it is able to chuck out, at the expense of the tires. No magic involved.
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This only affords you so much extra, especially when you're using 255/285 tires. This doesn't magically make a 3800lb car able to outpace cars with more horsepower and 6-800lbs less, especially on street tires which are very unforgiving when it comes to weight.
 
Arctor said:
240Z
Z32 300ZX
NA/NB Miata
SA RX-7
FC RX-7
FD RX-7
MkIV Supra
AW11 MR2
SW20 MR2
GC8 Impreza STi
Evo 5-10
Accord Type-R
Integra Type-R

Shall I go on?
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You may go on but those are just letters and numbers to me. I do not feel any emotional response in me, when I read them.

Maybe it's a generation thing. A thing of maturity.

I mean, isn't it a clear indication of the mental condition of GT-R owners, that Nissan was forced to remove the launch control from the Nissan GT-R (it doesn't accelerate in 3.5 seconds anymore now but needs just a bit over 4 sec.), because they kept wrecking the thing?

Is there any other sports car maker, who was forced to remove a feature from one of their cars, because customers kept abusing and violating it?

I'd rather nibble my right arm off, than belonging to the GT-R club.
 
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MacGuffin said:
You may go on but those are just letters and numbers to me. I do not feel any emotional response in me, when I read them.

Maybe it's a generation thing. A thing of maturity.
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I think he made your point quite clear...
 
the Interceptor said:
We've had that discussion before, but if you need it: the AWD system of the GT-R engages a tiny slip angle between the front and the rear axle, killing understeer and helping the car around the bend, which increases the speed through the bend as well as the exit speed, since you can floor it much earlier than other cars with this kind of power. That technique is responsible for the quick times it is able to chuck out, at the expense of the tires. No magic involved.
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That's exactly what any other even remotely talented driver will do with any other car, "dumb" AWD systems included. The GTR just does it for you. Where's the fun in that? Taking your foot off the brake in just the right manner and turning in at just the right speed in the right place with the right smoothness is the most rewarding thing I have ever done. If a computer came along and started doing that for me I'd crash into the nearest tree to punish it pronto. My love of driving fast comes from the need to go ever faster. If the computer is already going as fast as possible, then what more is there to achieve? It's like gaining the infinite knowledge of the universe - nothing is surprising any more.

The GTR is very impressive, and if I were going to a 1-lap time attack shootout where the winner gets a million bucks, I'd take the GTR hands down since it's so driveable. But, I wouldn't use it on the track for leisure, since there are many more entertaining cars that I could be using for virtually the same cost (like a Viper).
 
MacGuffin said:
You may go on but those are just letters and numbers to me. I do not feel any emotional response in me, when I read them.

Maybe it's a generation thing. A thing of maturity.

I mean, isn't it a clear indication of the mental condition of GT-R owners, that Nissan was forced to remove the launch control from the Nissan GT-R (it doesn't accelerate in 3.5 seconds anymore now but needs just a bit over 4 sec.), because they kept wrecking the thing?

Is there any other sports car maker, who was forced to remove a feature from their cars, because customers kept abusing and violating the car?

I'd rather nibble my right arm off, than belonging to the GT-R club.
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Let me start off by apologizing, I left off one of my all time favorites in the NSX on accident.

Oh don't even start by insinuating that because I'm younger that I somehow lack the maturity to understand what good cars are. How many cars on my list have you driven exactly? Many of these are held in regard amongst the best driver's cars of all time. In fact the Miata is quite possibly one of the purest useable sports cars ever made, which is why I ended up with one.

You claim that they're just letters and numbers but let's not forget the German penchant for alphanumeric model names. Perhaps you lack the experience with these cars to make a proper qualitative judgement, fairly illogical don't you think? Just to be clear I have driven almost every car on that list with the exception of a couple models which were never available in the States.

As for the Launch Control debacle, Nissan didn't design the car properly to take the stresses of one of it's advertised features, and rather than take responsibility they blame the user of the cars, many of whom had to pay exorbitant repair costs because of it. These cars weren't breaking after repeated use of it, they were breaking after only one or two applications of it. Fairly reasonable in my mind.

I don't think it's wise to criticize any sports car owner for wanting to experience the full potential of their cars, as it happens across the board. I may not like the car, or how Nissan is unwilling to take responsibility for the car, but to stereotype the owners based on that is bordering on ignorant.
 
Arctor said:
Let me start off by apologizing, I left off one of my all time favorites in the NSX on accident.

Oh don't even start by insinuating that because I'm younger that I somehow lack the maturity to understand what good cars are. How many cars on my list have you driven exactly? Many of these are held in regard amongst the best driver's cars of all time. In fact the Miata is quite possibly one of the purest useable sports cars ever made, which is why I ended up with one.
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Aye. Both the NSX and the Miata are on my "want" list. The Miata is a complete joy. I've never handled anything with two seats that responds so well.
 
MadCat360 said:
Aye. Both the NSX and the Miata are on my "want" list. The Miata is a complete joy. I've never handled anything with two seats that responds so well.
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The Miata is a perfect representation of a modern Lotus Elan. If you ever get the chance to drive a classic Elan, do. I drove one when I was 18 and it completely changed how I viewed cars.
 
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