2011 Formula 1 Season Thread

[tezgm99]

Hardly counts, Lewis retired. It's a good (albeit irrevlevant) question. I can't think of one...

oh come on, they didn't ask for one where the guy he beat actually finished the race, LOL! But that was the only time...for all his other wins, he's been leading after lap 1.

 

[Pininfarina_]

I agree, but I would almost venture to say he is BAD wheel to wheel, at least relative to many of the other drivers. There have been many instances where he has been unable to read the driver he is trying to pass and an incident happens. The main one that springs to mind is the one with Button last year where he took out the radiator on the Mclaren, and the Turkey incident with Webber last year is kind of similar too. Not saying he is a bad driver, but its definitely the area he needs to work on the most. I very much doubt that Vettel would have pulled off the race that Webber had in China a couple weeks ago in similar circumstances. Thats definitely one area that he doesn't hold true to "baby schumi".

I think in many ways he is lucky to have a fantastic qualifying car this year and he wouldn't be doing quite as well without that. I don't really hold that against him though, since having the right car under you is as important as having the ability to win. I think there could be other current drivers doing a similar job with that car, but at the same time Webber is no slouch and can't hold a candle to him at the moment. I'm still hoping for some other teams to start getting competitive with the Red Bull car so it so it stays interesting for the whole season.

I think my thinking comes from my hamilton fanboyism in that seb is more or less lost if he doesn't lead in the first lap and can't wheel to wheel with other drivers. Sure he's had one or two exceptions but you'd be naive to think that vettel is good fighting up from the middle of the pack.

I guess vettel is fortunate to have a car that suits his racing style, albeit, a style that relies on winning the race in the first lap.

 

[Red_Bull]

I can see where you are coming from and tend to agree. Last season was one of the best ever because there were 4-5 drivers that could have won the championship until the very end of the season. This year doesn't seem like its going to be that way. Unless someone gets really clever and finds a game changing innovation mid season, it sure looks like Vettel will just run away with the title.

In general I like the guy and think he's a much more interesting person then Schumi ever was. Calm and cool is all good, but one of the best parts about Vettel is that he is very personable and has a sense of humor. I don't have any problem with him winning or anything, but it makes for a boring year if he wins by a landslide. I would say the same about any other driver out there too. Who knows, maybe there will be a game changer and things will change like they did for Button the year he won. It kind of started out this way with him too, and then others caught up. Still 15 more races to go and a lot can happen in that time. Luckily we are getting some quality racing in regardless of Seb's superiority.

Well he did fight his way through the field at Silverstone last year, albeit clattering into Sutil on the way.

 

[DubyaStep]

Perhaps he has, but I still hate it when only one guy wins; unchallenged too.

For me, its the frustration knowing that if vettel didn't have that superior car, he would be nowhere. He truly is a baby schumacher.

Yes, its true that the car can account for alot of it but is the driver not a factor? Look at rosberg, look what he has. i feel he has a 10th place car that he drives the shit out of. are you saying that if rossberg and vettel switched cars that vettel would finish 10th? does that mean that rosberg would finish first? see what im saying here?

 

[bone]

random thought: they should reintroduce the rule that the fastest lap time gets (an) additional championship point(s)! should result in some hardcore driving the last laps (when fuel levels are low)

 

[Asura]

The likes of Vettel, Hamilton and Schumacher will never earn from me is RESPECT. While, don't get me wrong, I admire their respective successes, I will never regard them as having a formula one career that is trully brilliant. I have more respect for drivers that move up the ranks from the very bottom, as a relative unknown, and gain fame, success and fortune with what they did on the track, race in and race out. Current drivers like Barrichello, Button, Alonso, Webber and more recently Kobayashi earn their reputation not with having a nice red carpet laid out in front of them leading up to or at the beginning of their f1 carrer. Yes, I respect what Koba is doing far much more so than Vettel getting all those wins and the championship... and I don't really give a fuck if Vettel will eventually get 10 titles if Red Bull stays competitive like this down the road. Much like what I felt when Schumacher got his 7.

 

[camsinny]

random thought: they should reintroduce the rule that the fastest lap time gets (an) additional championship point(s)! should result in some hardcore driving the last laps (when fuel levels are low)

I think the commentators brought that up last year. It'd certainly make drivers push more, especially if the championship points are close.
If that rule were in place now, Webber would be just one point behind Hamilton.

 

[Loz]

random thought: they should reintroduce the rule that the fastest lap time gets (an) additional championship point(s)! should result in some hardcore driving the last laps (when fuel levels are low)

Why not extend it a bit and have an extra point of two for Pole. And an extra one for leading the most laps?

 

[mpicco]

The likes of Vettel, Hamilton and Schumacher will never earn from me is RESPECT. While, don't get me wrong, I admire their respective successes, I will never regard them as having a formula one career that is trully brilliant. I have more respect for drivers that move up the ranks from the very bottom, as a relative unknown, and gain fame, success and fortune with what they did on the track, race in and race out. Current drivers like Barrichello, Button, Alonso, Webber and more recently Kobayashi earn their reputation not with having a nice red carpet laid out in front of them leading up to or at the beginning of their f1 carrer. Yes, I respect what Koba is doing far much more so than Vettel getting all those wins and the championship... and I don't really give a fuck if Vettel will eventually get 10 titles if Red Bull stays competitive like this down the road. Much like what I felt when Schumacher got his 7.

So you're saying Schumacher and the Benetton team were superstars from day 1... and Schumacher did not move into Ferrari when it was an uncompetitive team...

 

[bone]

Why not extend it a bit and have an extra point of two for Pole. And an extra one for leading the most laps?

the pole sitter already has enough advantage, and if he is able to get the pole, he should be able to set the fastest lap during the race as well...

 

[Asura]

So you're saying Schumacher and the Benetton team were superstars from day 1... and Schumacher did not move into Ferrari when it was an uncompetitive team...

He was certainly not superstar from day 1 but he joined teams that had cars that were already very competitive. Even if you count Jordan in, de Cesaris constantly finished in the points and Gachot was able to finish as high as 5th in Canada that year. Ask yourself this question: Did Schumacher joined a team that fell below top 5 in the constructors?

And I just cannot believe you, a Ferrari fan regarded your team during the days of Berger, Prost and Mansel were "uncompetitive". They had the people, the know-how and they were not lacking resources during those days. When Schumacher joined Ferrari, please do not forget, 13 people moved from Benetton to Ferrari... 13!!! From a championship winning team! How many people were there in a F1 team back in those days again? It was those people from Benetton that made Ferrari the team to beat afterwards. Yes, Schumacher played a role but they were under Brawn's direction with Byrne's car that made the history.

 

[rowd22]

He was certainly not superstar from day 1 but he joined teams that had cars that were already very competitive. Even if you count Jordan in, de Cesaris constantly finished in the points and Gachot was able to finish as high as 5th in Canada that year. Ask yourself this question: Did Schumacher joined a team that fell below top 5 in the constructors?

And I just cannot believe you, a Ferrari fan regarded your team during the days of Berger, Prost and Mansel were "uncompetitive". They had the people, the know-how and they were not lacking resources during those days. When Schumacher joined Ferrari, please do not forget, 13 people moved from Benetton to Ferrari... 13!!! From a championship winning team! How many people were there in a F1 team back in those days again? It was those people from Benetton that made Ferrari the team to beat afterwards. Yes, Schumacher played a role but they were under Brawn's direction with Byrne's car that made the history.

He makes a good point.

 

[mpicco]

He was certainly not superstar from day 1 but he joined teams that had cars that were already very competitive. Even if you count Jordan in, de Cesaris constantly finished in the points and Gachot was able to finish as high as 5th in Canada that year. Ask yourself this question: Did Schumacher joined a team that fell below top 5 in the constructors?

Hell yes Ferrari was uncompetitive back then, for Ferrari standards. The team didn't win a single grand prix for around 4 years. And as you say, when Schumacher moved, a lot of the championship winning engineers and personnel moved with him... and still it took them 5 years to shape the team into a championship winning team! It's no secret they were uncompetitive in 2009. Being a fan doesn't mean you won't accept your team has flaws and bad years you know?

Anyway what are you gonna tell me next, you don't respect Senna because he joined Toleman, which had had 4th and 5th place finishes the previous year, before he joined?

 

[Asura]

Hell yes Ferrari was uncompetitive back then, for Ferrari standards. The team didn't win a single grand prix for around 4 years.

I'm not too sure what is this "Ferrari standards" you mentioned. Seems like you are comparing Ferrari+Benetton 2000-2004 with Ferrari 1990-1994. Time paradox much? Berger managed to win in Germany 94 btw, and 10 podium finishes amongst Berger and Alesi. I certainly would not consider that as uncompetitive in any era.

I'll tell you why Ferrari was not a title contender before Ferrari+Benetton. They were simply swamped by a technological revolution carried out by Williams, McLaren and Benetton. Magical devices like active suspension, traction control, ABS, the introduction of computer telemetry and Semi-auto box was introduced by Williams in a very short period of time and Maranello simply could not keep up (may be they considered having computers in a racing car as imperfection). But if you take away all these gizmos from a FW14b and then compare it with a similar era Ferrari, I don't think the Williams could go any faster. The defected Benetton tech engineers gave Ferrari telemetry, TC, ABS and, most importantly, reliability. They were the one that transformed Ferrari from a competitive team into a title contender. I can only give Schumacher the credit that it was him who were the first to defect to Ferrari.

The only weakness I see from Ferrari over the years is the lack of significant technological/design innovation. They were able to build very competitive cars under the regulation and relied on capable drivers but they were unable to think outside the box and come up with any brilliant designs that instantly transformed a car and make all the teams scrambled to copy. All I can think of is those silly front hubcaps they put on the front wheels to reduce drag but how much did they gain from that? If anyone know Ferrari came up with something that changed the F1 game, feel free to point out.

 

[mpicco]

I'm not too sure what is this "Ferrari standards" you mentioned. Seems like you are comparing Ferrari+Benetton 2000-2004 with Ferrari 1990-1994. Time paradox much? Berger managed to win in Germany 94 btw, and 10 podium finishes amongst Berger and Alesi. I certainly would not consider that as uncompetitive in any era.

I'll tell you why Ferrari was not a title contender before Ferrari+Benetton. They were simply swamped by a technological revolution carried out by Williams, McLaren and Benetton. Magical devices like active suspension, traction control, ABS, the introduction of computer telemetry and Semi-auto box was introduced by Williams in a very short period of time and Maranello simply could not keep up (may be they considered having computers in a racing car as imperfection). But if you take away all these gizmos from a FW14b and then compare it with a similar era Ferrari, I don't think the Williams could go any faster. The defected Benetton tech engineers gave Ferrari telemetry, TC, ABS and, most importantly, reliability. They were the one that transformed Ferrari from a competitive team into a title contender. I can only give Schumacher the credit that it was him who were the first to defect to Ferrari.

The only weakness I see from Ferrari over the years is the lack of significant technological/design innovation. They were able to build very competitive cars under the regulation and relied on capable drivers but they were unable to think outside the box and come up with any brilliant designs that instantly transformed a car and make all the teams scrambled to copy. All I can think of is those silly front hubcaps they put on the front wheels to reduce drag but how much did they gain from that? If anyone know Ferrari came up with something that changed the F1 game, feel free to point out.

Ferrari standards means being up there and fighting for both championships. For the only team that has competed in all F1 seasons, not being in contention for either title is a failed year, and that's what was happening all through the late 80s and early 90s. Not a CC since 83 until finally achieving it with Schumacher&co in 1999, and the last driver who'd been champion driving a Ferrari was Scheckter in 79! That is NOT the results of a championship winning team and Ferrari were not at this point (and mind you, I became a Ferrari fan around 1996 with the Schumacher-Hill battles, then Villeneuve, then Hakkinen.)

The defected engineers didn't give Ferrari any TC, that was banned till 2001 and by then anyone could have figured it out. ABS was also banned and has never returned.
Think what you will, I don't think just anyone could have pushed Ferrari back into shape like that, no matter who the engineers were.
About innovations, Ferrari were the first to fit a semi automatic gearbox, but I'm sure you'll find this is nothing at all and come at me with more arguments.

 

[Asura]

Ferrari standards means being up there and fighting for both championships. For the only team that has competed in all F1 seasons, not being in contention for either title is a failed year, and that's what was happening all through the late 80s and early 90s.

That is YOUR expectation towards Ferrari as a fan. I'm sure every team on the grid in formula 1 every year would like to win the title or else is a failed year. That's just stating the blatant obvious. Let me remind you F1 is the most competitive form of motorsport and having such "standards" just add to that fanatic snobbery mentality a lot of Ferrari fans exudes just because they've seen what they've archieved in the last decade. In a (more) neutral point of view, Ferrari never fell out of contention and I deeply respect what they were able to archieve during those years despite the tech handicap.

I'm sorry if my opinion tripped over your opinion towards Schumacher as you became a Ferrari fan when Schumacher joined but I'm just trying to bring about why Ferrari became THAT successful. If you do not agree with me, then just leave it at that. Schumacher was constantly given a superior car compare to his peers so he could get all those poles and wins. Much like what Vettel is doing at the moment. In the Turkish GP this year, Alonso managed to get to the podium despite an inferior car. Vettel nursed his car home to get the win. Huge respect for Alonso. Vettel did not crash. Yay. Sometimes results isn't everything when it comes to comparing drivers. It's about what they've got under them and what they've archieve despite of/ because of it.

Edit: Thank you mpicco for correcting my embarassing error on the semi-auto gearbox. Ferrari managed to come up with 7 speed semi-automatic transmission in 61 years of formula one competition.

 

[Sir Stiggington]

I'm sorry if my opinion tripped over your opinion towards Schumacher as you became a Ferrari fan when Schumacher joined but I'm just trying to bring about why Ferrari became THAT successful. If you do not agree with me, then just leave it at that. Schumacher was constantly given a superior car compare to his peers so he could get all those poles and wins. Much like what Vettel is doing at the moment. In the Turkish GP this year, Alonso managed to get to the podium despite an inferior car. Vettel nursed his car home to get the win. Huge respect for Alonso. Vettel did not crash. Yay. Sometimes results isn't everything when it comes to comparing drivers. It's about what they've got under them and what they've archieve despite of/ because of it.

Well said.

 

[Pininfarina_]

That is YOUR expectation towards Ferrari as a fan. I'm sure every team on the grid in formula 1 every year would like to win the title or else is a failed year. That's just stating the blatant obvious. Let me remind you F1 is the most competitive form of motorsport and having such "standards" just add to that fanatic snobbery mentality a lot of Ferrari fans exudes just because they've seen what they've archieved in the last decade. In a (more) neutral point of view, Ferrari never fell out of contention and I deeply respect what they were able to archieve during those years despite the tech handicap.

I'm sorry if my opinion tripped over your opinion towards Schumacher as you became a Ferrari fan when Schumacher joined but I'm just trying to bring about why Ferrari became THAT successful. If you do not agree with me, then just leave it at that. Schumacher was constantly given a superior car compare to his peers so he could get all those poles and wins. Much like what Vettel is doing at the moment. In the Turkish GP this year, Alonso managed to get to the podium despite an inferior car. Vettel nursed his car home to get the win. Huge respect for Alonso. Vettel did not crash. Yay. Sometimes results isn't everything when it comes to comparing drivers. It's about what they've got under them and what they've archieve despite of/ because of it.

Edit: Thank you mpicco for correcting my embarassing error on the semi-auto gearbox. Ferrari managed to come up with 7 speed semi-automatic transmission in 61 years of formula one competition.

Winrar.

 

[Pininfarina_]

Although currently sitting fifth in the table, 52 points shy of championship leader Sebastian Vettel, Alonso is satisfied his study of last year?s stats proves he remains a strong championship contender.

?I like playing with numbers - and as I travelled backwards and forwards between home, Maranello and Turkey, I made a comparison between my first four races of last year and those of this year in the corresponding Grands Prix,? he explained. ?What came out of this little game was that compared to 2010 I?m eight points short (49 to 41) but in the same four races, this year I?ve brought home 13 more points compared to last year (41 to 28).

?It?s true that my current gap to the top of the drivers championship is much greater (52 points) compared to what I had after Shanghai 2010 (11 points) but I well recall that after Silverstone we were 47 points away and we only had eight races left. Today we still have 15 Grands Prix to come. This shows that you can look at the same thing in two different, even completely opposite ways.?

Source

Alonso secretly a math nerd

 

[GaryC]

Or the in-flight entertainment is piss-poor.