Okay fine, what's a good cheap RWD car then?

[ninjacoco]

No love for the S2000 yet? It's practically the default "other car" to the Miata, minus the hairdresser stigma. It'd handle a lot better than a Mustang right off the lot without having to do a lot to it. Plus, they come in a similar blue to the Vipers you keep posting.

I'll still put in a word for "beater Miatas can be had for stupidly cheap," though. You don't see them at LeMons for nothing. The same can be said for old Mustangs, too.

Maybe what you should be looking for the one that handles more like a Viper (minus the "I'mma kill you" amount of horsepower) without breaking the bank instead? I haven't driven a Viper myself, so I have no idea on this one. Mustangs may be cheap, but from every account I've heard, the handling is usually so borked that you either have to do a lot of work to improve that (which I get the impression that you don't want to do) or adjust your driving habits to suit the "this wasn't really set up for handling"-ness of the car. If the habits you'd pick up driving a Mustang are similar to the things you'd need to do to drive a Viper well, dude--go for it. If not, I dunno. If you're going for a car in between the one you really want, I would think a smooth progression of "slightly more Viper-like" qualities in what you're driving would be the best way to go about it.

 

[airmenair]

The Merkur XR4Ti. However, they were re-engined with the turbo Thunderbird engine, sold very poorly and as some of the local members can attest, don't actually hold up very well. I don't think we actually have a currently running example among the few people that have an XR4Ti on this forum, last I looked. So they were rare and unpopular to start and that hasn't improved with time.

Edit: The whopping 145 horsepower it came with didn't help either.

Mine runs!* And its 170 hp for the 5 speed!

*Runs with incredible rod knock but runs nonetheless!

 

[Spectre]

Mine runs!* And its 170 hp for the 5 speed!

*Runs with incredible rod knock but runs nonetheless!

That's 'running' like rickhamilton's Saturn is 'a good car'. Would you drive it to Waco and back right now, if you were told you could not get a tow or any assistance if it broke down? I think not.

Mustangs may be cheap, but from every account I've heard, the handling is usually so borked that you either have to do a lot of work to improve that (which I get the impression that you don't want to do) or adjust your driving habits to suit the "this wasn't really set up for handling"-ness of the car.

See: subframe connectors and K-frame brace. Solves the majority of the chassis' problems for less than $500. It's not a Miata, but then neither is a Viper. To get a Miata to simulate a Viper, you'd need to swap in a V8.

 

[LeVeL]

Let's see, anti-Miata rant in...3...2...1...

Slow and great handling vs fast and good handling. Oh and cheaper to buy, cheaper to modify and even better makes a much more pleasing noise. Mustang for the win. Plus, he already stated no for the MX-5. It's his thread, follow his rules.

More like "slow but fantastic handling lightweight nimble responsive sports car vs fast but crappy-handling muscle car (or pony car, w/e). I also doubt that the 'stangs are cheaper to buy or modify.


Oh, and I didn't realize Miatas look girly
https://pic.armedcats.net/l/le/level/2011/07/20/4439473129_4661b68ff3_z.jpg

If you still don't like the idea of a Miata, I'll just shut up

 

[airmenair]

That's 'running' like rickhamilton's Saturn is 'a good car'. Would you drive it to Waco and back right now, if you were told you could not get a tow or any assistance if it broke down? I think not.

Actually I think it'd make it. It made it Arlington to Ennis with no fuss. Only thing is the fan motor locked up on it. Fires up every time though, just sounds terrible.

 

[_HighVoltage_]

My vote would go to the V8 F-Body. Personally, I think it looks better than the Mustang.

You could also go for a Volvo 740, but that looks way too boring and sedate unless you modify it.

 

[argatoga]

I owned a '97 GT and loved it. Up here they go for around $4k in good condition. A New Edge '99-'04 will go for ~$6k-8k and will have 40 or so more horse power. A blower would make all that mute, but the New Edges look better.

You name it you can get it on these cheap. Don't buy the convertible though, if the heater cores goes out for any reason it is a fourteen hour job (with a custom jig) that most indy shops won't bother with outside of a bypass hose on the engine.

If you want a 6.0L GTO my sister is selling her's. Babied for all its life.

My vote would go to the V8 F-Body. Personally, I think it looks better than the Mustang.

You could also go for a Volvo 740, but that looks way too boring and sedate unless you modify it.

Fail bodies are hideously expensive to maintain due to the idiot engineering. See "two hour spark plug replacement".

Oh and I forgot another obvious choice. TR4 with an engine swap or blower.

http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/ArtHart.htm

 

[GRtak]

Hate to say it but the man has a point. If you are a bit of a spanner monkey at heart then this would be the way to go.

Naturally being a Miata driver and more concerned about hair product and the like I leave ruining my nails to that lovely man at the garage in the dreamy blue overalls.

SO which came first, the gay or the car????



Viper, go car shopping at the various dealerships in your area. This way you get to see various cars and go for some test rides, plus you get to see the salesman in action and learn how to defeat the beast before you buy yours.

 

[Spectre]

More like "slow but fantastic handling lightweight nimble responsive sports car vs fast but crappy-handling muscle car (or pony car, w/e). I also doubt that the 'stangs are cheaper to buy or modify.

Base Mustang GT, $3500: http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ctd/2503994373.html
Vortech supercharger kit, $3680: http://www.americanmuscle.com/mustang-vortech-supercharger-0004gt.html

End result: 364 Horsepower and 371 lb/ft of Torque. Total cost under $10K including install, all bolt-on. Throw in subframe connectors and a k-frame brace install and you're still under $10K.

Show me where I can get a Miata to do that with bolt-ons for less? Hell, the best Flyin' Miata turbo kit for the NB (comparable year to the Mustang) is $5295 all by itself and it nets you... 250hp. A 1999 Miata averages 1-3K *more* than the Mustang. No way you can get close to that for less than $10K. And in the real world, there's a lot more straights than curves.

I say again - Mustangs are cheeeeeeeeeeeep.

 

[Viper007Bond]

Oh and I forgot another obvious choice. TR4 with an engine swap or blower.

Well my dad does keep saying he wants the body taken off his TR250 and stuck onto a modern chassis... :lol:

No love for the S2000 yet? It's practically the default "other car" to the Miata, minus the hairdresser stigma.

Used ones are $15-20k.

 

[Spectre]

Used ones are $15-20k.

And the cheaper (on the used market), earlier S2000s tend to have the rear differential literally explode under hard use. It was underspecced.

On top of that, the S2K has a different driving pattern from the Viper (the end goal here, no?) - where both the Viper and Mustang emphasize low end torque (and lots of it), the S2K doesn't even begin to wake up until the engine is shrieking at over 6000rpm. You have to run the S2K like you'd ride a sport bike to get it to be fun.

Mind, I still love the S2K (because it's really just a four-wheeled sportbike) and might eventually pick one up if a cheap one presents itself. But most people completely missed the point of the car or don't know how to properly operate it and sales reflected that. In this case, S2K isn't a great candidate for a 'Viper trainer' because it's at the opposite end of the performance RWD philosophy spectrum.

 

[LeVeL]

S2000s, especially the early ones, are really snappy at the limit.

Miata discussion moved where it belongs.

 

[Viper007Bond]

Miata discussion moved where it belongs.

That kind of discussion is fine here if you think it's what I should get, but I think I more need practice dealing with power than I'm looking for a well handling track car.

As Spectre mentioned, I'm mostly looking for a baby Viper here both in terms of power and handling characteristics.

The discussion was not whether the Miata is better at cornering or straight track use or whatever since Viper had already ruled it out anyway!

I haven't ruled it out, I'm just not a big fan of it's looks or it's image with the ladies. That said of course I could get a MX-5 and mod it a bit to look better, but is that really the route I should go?

 

[Spectre]

I haven't ruled it out, I'm just not a big fan of it's looks or it's image with the ladies. That said of course I could get a MX-5 and mod it a bit to look better, but is that really the route I should go?

Not if you want to sell it on. Remember, outside of the relatively small circle of gearheads and wanna-be gearheads, cosmetic body mods generally reduce your resale value, not increase it. Chances are good that your wider audience doesn't want your idea of 'good looking' and will avoid your car when it comes time to resell. (Case in point is my XJ6. I could not sell it as-is even if I wanted to, because most buyers do not want the TWR spoiler or 17" five spoke wheels or the sport steering wheel.)

 

[argatoga]

It looks like the Mustang is the way to go. When the rear ends ambles away from you ease off the throttle and counter steer.

 

[Spectre]

It looks like the Mustang is the way to go. When the rear ends ambles away from you ease off the throttle and counter steer.

And have a great deal of fun in the process. 99-up cars do have traction control - which you can turn off if you feel brave or talented or skilled.

 

[argatoga]

And have a great deal of fun in the process. 99-up cars do have traction control - which you can turn off if you feel brave or talented or skilled.

Oh yes getting the rear out is a blast.

 

[Spectre]

Yes, yes, it is.

I don't condone stupidity on a public street, but this looked like an abandoned or closed road. Excellent example of close quarters car control.

Another point to be made is that Vipers and Mustangs like to powerslide and drift and even the ardent Miata fans have to admit that the Miata is just not good at that. Short wheelbase, lack of power, unfavorable ratio of beam to length.

 

[argatoga]

God damn it, you're making me regret selling my Mustang more so.

 

[ninjacoco]

Used ones are $15-20k.

Ah, nuts. My knowledge of them kinda ends at "it's the convertible that's not a Miata" and "they get kinda twitchy at the limit," though, so I had no idea they still fetched a pretty penny.

I haven't ruled it out, I'm just not a big fan of it's looks or it's image with the ladies. That said of course I could get a MX-5 and mod it a bit to look better, but is that really the route I should go?

https://pic.armedcats.net/n/ni/ninjacoco/2011/07/21/manly-monster-miata.jpg

</devilsadvocate>

I've said this before and I'll say it again: any girl who'll write you off because of a car isn't worth keeping around. :lol: