Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

nomix said:
My feelings are with the family. Very sad.

The Aussies will chump up. I think Howard managed to get one thousand gallons of lager and three miles of barbed wire fence from negotiations over military cooperation with the previous administration.
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Condolences to the UK troops' families. We have had 3 Aussie troops die today over there as well (in a helicopter accident, not in combat), our highest death toll in one day (beating the toll of 2 which was even more sadly only set about a week ago). Our death toll is comparatively low however (16), which is something to be somewhat thankful for.

On the topic of Aussies being friends with the US, it is something I am not entirely proud of as an Australian, yet I feel the relationship has been lessened from the Howard/Bush days of Aussie being the US's lackey and little brother with no voice on the international stage because big bro did all the talking for us. Don't know how our upcoming election will affect the relations, especially if Abbot the idiot gets elected (god forbid). I definitely don't enjoy the scenario of us being dependant on one country only for international "back-up" when it comes to issues, and I think Howard brought us very close to that. However, I think if Obama did call on Australia for help in an international conflict/peacekeeping force, we would be one of the first to sign up. Not saying that is a bad thing, just that we are still pretty close to the US (a factor of that being that both of our current governments in power are centre-left and as such agree on a lot of stuff from what I can see)
 
Hey, Norway's a long, traditional friend of the US too. Goes back to emigration in the 1800s, early US recognition of Norway in 05, cooperation during the war (the Crown Prince and his family stayed with Eleanor Roosevelt), and after the war. There are a few scrapes, we did recognize Hamas in 06, and there is a large anti-US block in Norway. But we're still very good friends.

We joined in in Afghanistan (even if we may not be as involved as the US might want), even if we oposed Iraq. And we won't discuss that here.

If it's peacekeeping, sure, we'll be there.

My referance was dual, though. First I played the good old Oz stereotype that you're all lager-drinking oiks :)P), then I referenced the.. camps.
 
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Obama appeared out of nowhere in 2004 with his keynote speech at the Democratic convention, was there anyone shining at the Republican convention in 2008? Well Palin obviously, but that woman is bonkers. Can you build up a candidate in 2 years?
 
Dogbert said:
So, while Obama does have room for improvement with his totally average job rating, who do you think is a viable Republican candidate in 2012? I can't think of one R off the top of my head that would stand a chance.
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Arnold Vinnick, senior senator from CA.

Other than that.. well.. perhaps Palin? Sure, she'll lose epicly, but I'm fine with that. Glenn Beck would be a lot of fun too. Sorry, I'm done joking.

To be honest, I'm really not sure. Just as it was McCain's time in 08, perhaps it'll be Rudy's turn this time?

Cold Fussion said:
Do we think that in 200 years or in some period of time, we will see ww1 and ww2 as the same war with a 20 year null period in the middle?
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No doubt. They'll see 1918-38/39 as a siece fire.
 
Dogbert said:
Define "combined".
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For example the 30 years and 100 years wars all are a group of conflicts grouped into a single war. WW1 and WW2 are similar, and it wouldn't take that much to define them as one war with two distinct phases.
 
Cold Fussion said:
So how long after the last serviceman dies do you think we will see them combined into one war? And any ideas on what we'll call it?
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Good question. Perhaps in two-three hundered years. I think they will start by referring to it as "phase one and phase two of the world wide war", until they just end up calling it "the world wide war". They'll like that it's W x 3, and they'll like that it adds up to three digits. No body likes abreviations with just two letters (like "WW" for "World War"), they want three letters like "WWW".
 
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I don't think it'll happen for at least a couple hundred years, if it ever happens.

The "hundred years wars" were pretty much constant warring interspersed with peace. If you combine WW1 and WW2, it will be 31 years of "war" with 21 years of peace. Combined, the two wars only officially lasted about ten years.
 
Cold Fussion said:
Do we think that in 200 years or in some period of time, we will see ww1 and ww2 as the same war with a 20 year null period in the middle?
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Some historians would already define it as such. My history professor this last quarter discussed it as such, considering ww2 was a near direct consequence of ww1.
 
Jerusalem municipal planning committee approves plan to demolish 22 Palestinian homes in the Silwan neighborhood of East Jerusalem to make room for a tourist center.

The Palestinian Authority on Monday slammed Israel's decision to raze 22 Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, saying the dangerous move requires both American and international intervention.
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Those pesky Palestinians. Pushing Israel on demolishing Palestinian homes to make such an essential piece of arcitecture as a tourist center. To think they DEAR endanger the peace by protesting this natural act of nature?!

My God, it's like they think they fucking own the land!
 
Jerusalem municipal planning committee approves plan to demolish 22 Palestinian homes in the Silwan neighborhood of East Jerusalem to make room for a tourist center.

The Palestinian Authority on Monday slammed Israel's decision to raze 22 Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem, saying the dangerous move requires both American and international intervention.
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Those pesky Palestinians. Pushing Israel on demolishing Palestinian homes to make such an essential piece of arcitecture as a tourist center. To think they DEAR endanger the peace by protesting this natural act of nature?!

My God, it's like they think they fucking own the land!
 
nomix said:
When did black people get the right to vote in Rhodesia? And if it didn't happen at UDI, because they weren't ready to rule a modern country, did the Rhodesian regime do all in their power to prepare their black population through education and the likes?

I'm -no- expert on Rhodesian history. That's why I'm asking.
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As you would expect it was a very complicated situation, not helped by British underhandedness. The blacks had limited enfranchisement when compared to the whites but there was some to be sure. I am not saying that the various groups were equal. The whites were on top and ran the country. However Rhodesia was not South Africa. The extreme racism and apartheid was not present in Rhodesia. There was an education program for the blacks and I suspect had the country been allowed to survive more and more rights would have been given. That would had allowed the country to survive as a rock in sub-Saharan Africa. A country economically peaceful and peaceful in general. As unequal as it was in Rhodesia what came after was even worse.
 
Heck, I'm not defending Mugabe, but really, you have to start asking questions when a country has active discriminatory policies, as Rhodesia after all had. Stability, or imagined stability for that matter, is not a good enough reason to keep democracy from people. Gorbatsjov understood it, and apart from revantists in Russia, I don't think there's a lot of people who want the good old days back.
 
I am trying to look at the long view of things(and with hindsight of course). The white government and population just had to look around at Ghana, Nigeria, Congo, etc to see that what Britain proposed for them might not work out. Each gained independence with great fanfare and within a few years each would become a dictatorship of some sort, repressing its population in more extreme ways that had the colonial governments. The Congo especially was a tragic example. The Belgians basically cut and ran and what followed was murderous violence. Had Rhodesia survived I think it would have been more of a benefit for Africa than a hindrance.
 
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It might. And if Andropov hadn't died in 85, the Soviet Union would probably still be there. Predicting what turns history might have taken if things went differently is interesting. It's never surtain, though.
 
I've been looking for photos of Rhodesia and I thought I would share. They make interesting viewing.

Bulawayo, 1968
http://img9.imageshack.**/img9/246/36670470297526cb1c50b30.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.**/img824/2871/3667047031ea4dd0af35b30.jpg
http://img823.imageshack.**/img823/8316/3661776996dab80350e2b31.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.**/img9/6682/36617769869b1ba2e012b31.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.**/img820/4811/36608886370c81bc380eb32.jpg

Sailsbury, 1968
http://img42.imageshack.**/img42/9400/3667915528971f1c2e90b25.jpg
http://img823.imageshack.**/img823/7573/415737620891c7a02e14b27.jpg
http://img823.imageshack.**/img823/9468/41573782746d08f50532b27.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.**/img130/430/4157379124405c077cf4b28.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.**/img9/6990/4156617435ff533aaebbb28.jpg

Victoria Falls, 1968
http://img130.imageshack.**/img130/5029/41566161772fc6e2d297b25.jpg

Umtali, 1968
http://img824.imageshack.**/img824/3928/3667915520dc7acc0ca4b26.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.**/img824/1816/36679155149eb4aaa873b29.jpg
http://img822.imageshack.**/img822/1038/36670470630c80fd11c0b29.jpg
http://img24.imageshack.**/img24/8661/3667047049cbb8ec4d39b29.jpg
http://img9.imageshack.**/img9/3936/3667047055dc604dbc7cb30.jpg

Salisbury, 1969
http://img27.imageshack.**/img27/2397/34296971853f72c71f77o22.jpg

Salisbury, 1970
http://img24.imageshack.**/img24/3448/38029362959f9475ac8fb32.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.**/img824/4908/3839634667ecbd20bf42b33.jpg
http://img823.imageshack.**/img823/3344/3806967755b4a1a5c5c0b33.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.**/img534/8362/3814543720247b857d77b33.jpg
 
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