The 2020 elections, news, and discussions

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It will be a year or so before the dissection of the election and we have a 5 foot view of this. I dont think history has been written on what happened and it might be 30 years distance that we have a narrative of how this shaked out. I wanted to respond to some of your statements and thoughts.

PaperBiro said:
So I saw a piece in the NYT last night about how a hardcore MAGAist reacted to the election, and several parts of it were fascinating to me...
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I was going to say "and I thought Biden would win North Carolina". The thing is we're both wrong... though I'm wrong to the tune of 80K votes vs wrong to the tune of national fracture and fascism. I think perhaps im being too hard on myself. I worked for republicans as a closeted gay man but I never lied to myself as much as hardcore Trump voters. I have 30 or so pocket Constitution/Declaration of Indepence I'd donate if i thought they would read them.

PaperBiro said:
For me, being a progressive in the age of Trump etc... it's always come from a place of urgency rather than utopian or wishful thinking. Fascism and authoritarianism feed on the disaffected. They feed on people who want a strongman to give them meaning and purpose when the free world has failed. If nothing changes, another Trump will get elected.
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I don't think many of these people (trumpers) will be active in politics much longer though. Why? Because Trump is unique in this draw that even his son won't recapture. I don't see Ben Sasse leading an alt-right campaign or a Nikki Haley capturing the "Angry White Male" or Ted Cruz being liked by... anyone. For a strongman to exist there has to be a candidate that wants to be a strongman and one that can win. That said "trumpism" won't just up and disappear but there will be an internal struggle for the GOP. You will see "trumpers" being stripped away following different candidates and ideals. That's not to say there won't be dangerous idiots only that moderate Republicans are going to get a lot more powerful in their party.

PaperBiro said:
Going into this election, I was so worried about widespread civil unrest if a sizeable number of hardcore Trump supporters thought that the election was unfairly stolen from them, and I wonder if the reason why that hasn't materialised (even more so than Fox News and the New York Post *thankfully* abandoning him) is that to the hardcore authoritarian mindset, fairness has very little meaning. Winning fairly and winning unfairly has very little distinction when your mindset is power and dominance.
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The reason why widespread civil unrest never materialized is because most people are not the firebrand nuts you see and hear pumping up gun sales and screaming the sky is falling.

As I said in April with the idea of Covid devolving into a civil war

Momentum57 said:
Again widespread civil unrest is a fantasy
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Yes; there was a group of dangerous idiots planning to kidnap "that women" aka the Governor of Michigan, they were caught. Yes; there was a couple of nuts with guns in a hummer, they were turned in. Guess what they don't have the support that one you think they do, or two that even they think they have. Even the right wing and "trumpers" are not 100% in on shooting their neighbors in the face.

You point to two outlets that are owned by the same family that "trumpers" have more or less dismissed as left leaning because "the fact Rupert's sons being such lefties". I watch Fox News, it's actually more capital R Republican than conservative or trumper. At this point Fox News is completely esqued for OANN, Newsmax and to an extent The Blaze. Fox News primetime will continue to paint 'leftist" as forcing you to drink starbucks and stealing christmas regardless of who is the politician du jour but dont have the connection to the theology.

The new "trumpy" news groups are going to be what needs to be monitored.
- Newsmax seems to be more "trumpy" in that they have more ex administration officials. Though Newsmax has Mark Halperin's Focus Group which is interesting. They also like to "trump up" their headlines which is going to be difficult when Trump isnt in office.
- OANN is batshit! John Oliver did a good little piece on them. You might know them as the place with Chanel Rion who claims to have graduated from Harvard but its an associates from the extension school which is like me saying I studied at Harvard because I took a CLE course there. Watch an hour and you will hear conspiracy theory and crazy... you'll laugh till you realise it's not satire people believe this.
- The Blaze is heartland hand jobs by Glenn Beck. They also merged with 'Conservative Review' which was Mark Levin, Michelle Malkin, Steven Crowder, Phil Robertson. Other big names Rick and Bubba, Chad Prather, Steve Burguiere, and Eric Bolling formerly of Fox News.

They dont have that much room for each other so I hope that Trump does make a new network and all four collapse

PaperBiro said:
I was really reflecting last night about my hopes and fears for a Biden presidency, and, look... I supported Warren and Sanders in the primaries. I'm under no illusion over who Joe Biden is, over the record he's had in the Senate... but last night, I was watching his victory speech and I couldn't help thinking that maybe he really could be the right man for the moment. Because he's had this stubborn, unwavering - and I think what a lot of people like myself thought was unrealistic - belief in bipartisanship, in unity, in unconditional love and compassion for your fellow human being no matter who they are and what they might believe. And... I think everyone else out there wants to believe in those things too right now.

And maybe that's what America needs right now - not just to... y'know, avoid another civil war, but to begin making real structural change and progress as well.
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Our worst fears and greatest dreams rarely are manifest.
 
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So ya'll remember 57 weeks ago at the end of Oct when Pat Robertson said god told him fats cheeto would win "without question"? https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...robertson-says-god-told-him-trump-will-win-an

I guess this means either god lied to poor old Pat, god was wrong, Pat lied, or Pat lied and god doesn't exist. Seeing these religious fundamentalists trying to square that circle is going to be hilarious to watch.
 
The Four Seasons presser just keeps giving -
 
I don't think many of these people (trumpers) will be active in politics much longer though. Why? Because Trump is unique in this draw that even his son won't recapture. I don't see Ben Sasse leading an alt-right campaign or a Nikki Haley capturing the "Angry White Male" or Ted Cruz being liked by... anyone. For a strongman to exist there has to be a candidate that wants to be a strongman and one that can win. That said "trumpism" won't just up and disappear but there will be an internal struggle for the GOP. You will see "trumpers" being stripped away following different candidates and ideals. That's not to say there won't be dangerous idiots only that moderate Republicans are going to get a lot more powerful in their party.
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I really do hope you're right. I may not agree with their views but I think it's important for the health of democracies to have the presence of a democratic center-right party. I've read accounts by never-Trump Republicans that... express this anxiety that the party's never going to be able to return to its roots. From someone outside the GOP scene, that's what it's looked like to me, that traditional conservativism has permanently morphed into something different, that people like Nikki Haley are going to have no chance in 2024.

Yes; there was a group of dangerous idiots planning to kidnap "that women" aka the Governor of Michigan, they were caught. Yes; there was a couple of nuts with guns in a hummer, they were turned in. Guess what they don't have the support that one you think they do, or two that even they think they have. Even the right wing and "trumpers" are not 100% in on shooting their neighbors in the face.
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That's good to hear - the sheer stress and divisiveness of this election have really made it feel like America's social fabric is on the verge of being torn apart. It's not just that I anticipated a bunch of crazies, I anticipated a lot more confusion: the fact that there was always the possibility that this election could take days, the fact that there was always going to be a red mirage and a blue shift, and... Trump's attacks on mail-in ballots and the fact that that's visibly had an dramatic effect on party voter preference. But the media have (generally) done a good job of keeping people informed about all this.

Our worst fears and greatest dreams rarely are manifest.
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Well... Trump manifested.
 
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Last night Biden walked out to Bruce Springsteen - We Take Care of Our Own -

His exit music was a nod to Beau, whose fav band was Coldplay and Chris Martin sang at his funeral -
 
Punisher Bass said:
Seeing these religious fundamentalists trying to square that circle is going to be hilarious to watch.
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Real easy to do that when you deny you ever predicted a circle. Dunno about you, but the Trumpers in my orbit are simply going on a @LeVeL -like deleting spree of any evidence they ever supported him and then challenging anyone who claims they were a supporter to find proof.
PaperBiro said:
Well... Trump manifested.
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Trump wasn't the worst fear. He was pretty damn bad, but the worst fear was someone who could command his level of cult worship but also wasn't a fucking idiot and actually did drop us into fascism.
 
 
Punisher Bass said:
So ya'll remember 57 weeks ago at the end of Oct when Pat Robertson said god told him fats cheeto would win "without question"? https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...robertson-says-god-told-him-trump-will-win-an

I guess this means either god lied to poor old Pat, god was wrong, Pat lied, or Pat lied and god doesn't exist. Seeing these religious fundamentalists trying to square that circle is going to be hilarious to watch.
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Get that money anyway you can
PaperBiro said:
I really do hope you're right. I may not agree with their views but I think it's important for the health of democracies to have the presence of a democratic center-right party. I've read accounts by never-Trump Republicans that... express this anxiety that the party's never going to be able to return to its roots. From someone outside the GOP scene, that's what it's looked like to me, that traditional conservativism has permanently morphed into something different, that people like Nikki Haley are going to have no chance in 2024.
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The Republican party on the whole is Chamber of Commerce conservative. The populism of "trumpism" wasn't their brand. Their issue with "trumpism" was it only sold to half the market. If you are a business leader and mainstream republican the firebrand "trumpers" and Qanon candidates look like trouble even if they win. It's a high maintenance relationship that they would have to defend and they don't have the energy.

The candidates that will run in 2024 will try to thread that needle to nit the Charlie Baker Republican to the populism of "trumpers". Nikki Haley was inside with Trump and spoke at his convention. To think they have been sharpening knives to give up is... I don't know the future but I believe it will have less Trump.

PelicanHazard said:
Real easy to do that when you deny you ever predicted a circle. Dunno about you, but the Trumpers in my orbit are simply going on a @LeVeL -like deleting spree of any evidence they ever supported him and then challenging anyone who claims they were a supporter to find proof.
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I've noticed this too a purge of that which had been solid Trump support to a kinda quiet to "I hope Joe can handle it".
 
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Yeah I saw that earlier and it's what prompted me to dig up Robertson's recent comments.

I'd love to know how Copeland's followers are able to explain covid killing almost 250,000 people in this country when he personally wiped it off the face of the earth months ago. What, did his words only work for those who's faith is strong enough? I thought "gods will" was absolute?

If you couldn't tell I'm a staunch atheist so I'm tickled at these people short circuiting because reality doesn't bend to their will.
 
 
Momentum57 said:
The reason why widespread civil unrest never materialized is because most people are not the firebrand nuts you see and hear pumping up gun sales and screaming the sky is falling.

As I said in April with the idea of Covid devolving into a civil war
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Yet, not even three weeks ago, you predicted "vaccine violence" across the US.
 
Dr_Grip said:
Yet, not even three weeks ago, you predicted "vaccine violence" across the US.
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I still think there will be. There's a difference between a few isolated violent acts and mass civil unrest.
 
Are we forgetting that an armed militia stormed and took over a US statehouse? Or that another group was foiled in kidnapping a state governor? Or the people that loaded up a Hummer with guns and headed out across state lines to attack a vote counting facility, only to be arrested just before the attack was to take place...
 
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