kaBOOMn
Well-Known Member
O.K I've been thinking of writing this for weeks, I've been a lurker (not reg'd) on this board for ages it erks me when people get upset and have a go at Jeremy Clarkson over his position on Japanese (mostly performance) cars and Alfa Romeo's. Also since the Alfa Romeo 159 and Alfa Romeo Breara are being reviewed by Topgear is a few weeks I needed to make this post before then, since a few points I'll make (will hopefully...lol) relate to this upcomeing episode.
First off I'll admit that Alfa Romeo's on the whole are not the fastest cars in the world, nor the best built ? lol) nor the best cornering. Yet somehow the weighting of the steering, the feel, the crackle of the engines they use, the styleing and response are something that no other motor manufacturer has managed (or probably will manage) to replicate. They seem to understand how to make driveing (even tho your not the fastest) a thrill. Its a feeling that also cannot be replicated in a digital world -- Computer games.
This brings me onto the next point. The so called "Playstation Generation". Now I'll bet that a rather large group of the users on this board fit this group" be it by playing games like Grand Turismo or LFS (Doesn't really count since they are not real cars) and others. Now the majority of the people I know chose their future car "Community" based on the sort of cars they drove in the game. A friend of mine loved the Japanese cars in the game and recently purchased a Nissan S15 Silvia.
It seems that the bulk of people get into the Japanese cars based on their experience in these games. Now I've only played Gran Turismo once or twice and since I never owned a Playstation I do not know the game back to front. (I know somebody is going to have a go at me over this...lol 8) ) I don't know the ratio of Japanese performance cars to non Japanese cars....but does anybody get the impression that it is easier in a game like this to get into the Japanese cars?
While it has been said many times before that computer games are fantastic for advertising cars to the younger (and older) it seems that the Japanese motor manufacturers cottoned onto this form of advertiseing far quicker than western car makers. Since in a computer game you want a car that can win you the most races you normally get the fastest and easiest to get car to do so. Which supprise supprise turns out 9/10 times to be a Japanese car.
I asked a mate of mine why he didn't use any Alfa Romeo's when playing games like this and he replied saying (not a direct quote, but you'll get the point!) "They are too slow and just not interesting enough" O.K fair point but I tried to explain to him the passion and soul argument and he wasn't impressed. Because of his experience with this sort of game he will not even consider other types of cars. It seems while the digital world can display top end performance, it put across to the player the "feeling" of the car. *sigh* this is a hard post to write!!!!
I know where I live its very easy in real life to get into a Japanese performance car, and alot of the Japanese cars are very good but they ALL lack something.....
The point I'm trying to get accross (and am probably makeing a mess of it! ) is that alot of people dismiss cars like Alfa Romeo's for the simple reason that they don't look good on paper or in computer games. There is the "liveing with it" issue with AlfaRomeo 's where it takes 3 or so months to get the point of an Alfa Romeo. People take a 10 minunite drive and walk away saying "thats horrid" but they don't understand.
My introduction into the Alfa Romeo fold, came from when I got a job as a small workshop that delt with these cars. After many months I (eventually) got the point of Alfa's. On paper like I said before they looked slow, and inside (and out) they looked odd. Mechanically they where (compared to what I was used to) a nightmare. Everything seemed odd, and well wrong. Not in the intrests of reliability, or everyday use.
Simple things like friction ring syncros on Alfa gearboxes, while not being able to cope with as much abuse as the bork ring syncros found on other cars, cope much better on high RPM shifts. It seemed as if they had been designed as ready made race cars. Other parts included double counterweighted crankshafts as standard, fully cross drilled cranks, Di-dion rear ends with the gearbox in the boot, perfectly set out FWD syspension systems...the list goes on and on.
Finially it was the way they drove, sounded and felt. Look at any review of an Alfa Romeo you'll always get same conclusion. Brilliant to drive. Yet to get this brilliant drive you don't have to go really fast at all, infact many Alfas in history have been underpowered. I would not be supprised if JC soon comes to the same conclusion with the new Brera and 159. But so what? A dozen rounabouts will provide you wilth as much enjoyment as several high speed sweepers in another car. Now a Mitsi Evo 8 Lancer will probably eat the Alfa on the twisties but thats missing the point! The Lancer will probably make you look like a bit of a tool (no offense to anybody!) with that huge spoiler and aerokit.
With the passion and soul argument a lot of people use the Nissan Skyline as a example of a Japanese car with soul....but it just isn't. The design of the body is totally plain and bland while the later version (R34) looks like a car with a bunch of square holes cut in it. The RB engine (found in the R31-34) is down right terrible and produces one of the most hideous exhaust notes know to man. The problem is the way it drives. Yes you get pleasure from driveing around in one but most of the the pleasure seems to come from the fact that your just makeing every person who is into these sorts of cars jealous! Yes dynamically they are (GTR's only) brilliant and can hold cornering speeds that simply defy belief but it seems there is a little part of you saying "oooo everybody that has a Playstation is going to be sooooooooo jealous about this"
Now before the flames streak down on me, I know a Nissan RB upside down and back to front, and my day to day car is acutally powered by one. And its not really a standard RB, its a custom made Hybrid RB30 (that I made) and RB25...a 24v RB30 not the old 12v head. It has all sorts of technological gizmos on it inc water injection. So please, don't have a go at me about the RB.
While it is quite a powerful motor it seems to lack the passion and aural excitment of say a Alfa Romeo V6. The 2.5 and 3 Litre Alfa V6's (which has now been dropped ) are probably the best sounding 6 cylinder motors ever! Yes they are nowhere as near as powerful as a RB26DETT, RB25DET or RB30ET but they have a personality which the Nissan motors don't....infact the only Nissan motor I've come accross which had any sort of personallity was a MA09ERT. That motor was mad as a hatter!
Come to think of it no Japanese motor I've come into contact with has any sort of personality.
Sorry about my rant, I hope I've tried to get the "Alfa Romeo" point accross somehow and I hope you'll get some sort of insite into JC's comments when he reviews the new Alfa Romeo and some of his views on Japanese cars.
Oh and with this post I didn't mean to offend anybody, if I have I apologize in advance.
For the record I own a Holden VL Calais Turbo, a wierd factory made combo of a 3 Litre Nissan Skyline Turbo engine, "Australianised" Opel Reckford body and a major restlyeing job (its my day to day car). The toy is a Alfa Romeo Gulia Super 2L like is found in the Italian job movie.......so I'm used to abuse about my cars....
PS sorry about the bad grammer and spelling, which I'm sure are in the post.....
First off I'll admit that Alfa Romeo's on the whole are not the fastest cars in the world, nor the best built ? lol) nor the best cornering. Yet somehow the weighting of the steering, the feel, the crackle of the engines they use, the styleing and response are something that no other motor manufacturer has managed (or probably will manage) to replicate. They seem to understand how to make driveing (even tho your not the fastest) a thrill. Its a feeling that also cannot be replicated in a digital world -- Computer games.
This brings me onto the next point. The so called "Playstation Generation". Now I'll bet that a rather large group of the users on this board fit this group" be it by playing games like Grand Turismo or LFS (Doesn't really count since they are not real cars) and others. Now the majority of the people I know chose their future car "Community" based on the sort of cars they drove in the game. A friend of mine loved the Japanese cars in the game and recently purchased a Nissan S15 Silvia.
It seems that the bulk of people get into the Japanese cars based on their experience in these games. Now I've only played Gran Turismo once or twice and since I never owned a Playstation I do not know the game back to front. (I know somebody is going to have a go at me over this...lol 8) ) I don't know the ratio of Japanese performance cars to non Japanese cars....but does anybody get the impression that it is easier in a game like this to get into the Japanese cars?
While it has been said many times before that computer games are fantastic for advertising cars to the younger (and older) it seems that the Japanese motor manufacturers cottoned onto this form of advertiseing far quicker than western car makers. Since in a computer game you want a car that can win you the most races you normally get the fastest and easiest to get car to do so. Which supprise supprise turns out 9/10 times to be a Japanese car.
I asked a mate of mine why he didn't use any Alfa Romeo's when playing games like this and he replied saying (not a direct quote, but you'll get the point!) "They are too slow and just not interesting enough" O.K fair point but I tried to explain to him the passion and soul argument and he wasn't impressed. Because of his experience with this sort of game he will not even consider other types of cars. It seems while the digital world can display top end performance, it put across to the player the "feeling" of the car. *sigh* this is a hard post to write!!!!
I know where I live its very easy in real life to get into a Japanese performance car, and alot of the Japanese cars are very good but they ALL lack something.....
The point I'm trying to get accross (and am probably makeing a mess of it! ) is that alot of people dismiss cars like Alfa Romeo's for the simple reason that they don't look good on paper or in computer games. There is the "liveing with it" issue with AlfaRomeo 's where it takes 3 or so months to get the point of an Alfa Romeo. People take a 10 minunite drive and walk away saying "thats horrid" but they don't understand.
My introduction into the Alfa Romeo fold, came from when I got a job as a small workshop that delt with these cars. After many months I (eventually) got the point of Alfa's. On paper like I said before they looked slow, and inside (and out) they looked odd. Mechanically they where (compared to what I was used to) a nightmare. Everything seemed odd, and well wrong. Not in the intrests of reliability, or everyday use.
Simple things like friction ring syncros on Alfa gearboxes, while not being able to cope with as much abuse as the bork ring syncros found on other cars, cope much better on high RPM shifts. It seemed as if they had been designed as ready made race cars. Other parts included double counterweighted crankshafts as standard, fully cross drilled cranks, Di-dion rear ends with the gearbox in the boot, perfectly set out FWD syspension systems...the list goes on and on.
Finially it was the way they drove, sounded and felt. Look at any review of an Alfa Romeo you'll always get same conclusion. Brilliant to drive. Yet to get this brilliant drive you don't have to go really fast at all, infact many Alfas in history have been underpowered. I would not be supprised if JC soon comes to the same conclusion with the new Brera and 159. But so what? A dozen rounabouts will provide you wilth as much enjoyment as several high speed sweepers in another car. Now a Mitsi Evo 8 Lancer will probably eat the Alfa on the twisties but thats missing the point! The Lancer will probably make you look like a bit of a tool (no offense to anybody!) with that huge spoiler and aerokit.
With the passion and soul argument a lot of people use the Nissan Skyline as a example of a Japanese car with soul....but it just isn't. The design of the body is totally plain and bland while the later version (R34) looks like a car with a bunch of square holes cut in it. The RB engine (found in the R31-34) is down right terrible and produces one of the most hideous exhaust notes know to man. The problem is the way it drives. Yes you get pleasure from driveing around in one but most of the the pleasure seems to come from the fact that your just makeing every person who is into these sorts of cars jealous! Yes dynamically they are (GTR's only) brilliant and can hold cornering speeds that simply defy belief but it seems there is a little part of you saying "oooo everybody that has a Playstation is going to be sooooooooo jealous about this"
Now before the flames streak down on me, I know a Nissan RB upside down and back to front, and my day to day car is acutally powered by one. And its not really a standard RB, its a custom made Hybrid RB30 (that I made) and RB25...a 24v RB30 not the old 12v head. It has all sorts of technological gizmos on it inc water injection. So please, don't have a go at me about the RB.
While it is quite a powerful motor it seems to lack the passion and aural excitment of say a Alfa Romeo V6. The 2.5 and 3 Litre Alfa V6's (which has now been dropped ) are probably the best sounding 6 cylinder motors ever! Yes they are nowhere as near as powerful as a RB26DETT, RB25DET or RB30ET but they have a personality which the Nissan motors don't....infact the only Nissan motor I've come accross which had any sort of personallity was a MA09ERT. That motor was mad as a hatter!
Come to think of it no Japanese motor I've come into contact with has any sort of personality.
Sorry about my rant, I hope I've tried to get the "Alfa Romeo" point accross somehow and I hope you'll get some sort of insite into JC's comments when he reviews the new Alfa Romeo and some of his views on Japanese cars.
Oh and with this post I didn't mean to offend anybody, if I have I apologize in advance.
For the record I own a Holden VL Calais Turbo, a wierd factory made combo of a 3 Litre Nissan Skyline Turbo engine, "Australianised" Opel Reckford body and a major restlyeing job (its my day to day car). The toy is a Alfa Romeo Gulia Super 2L like is found in the Italian job movie.......so I'm used to abuse about my cars....
PS sorry about the bad grammer and spelling, which I'm sure are in the post.....