Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

[gaasc]

that's the problem, it was not a coup d'etat. the constitution is very clear that if you try to modify the constitution your presidential title is revoked and the congress can elect a new president.

 

[nomix]

You're sending out the wrong message when the army arrests the elected president of a country, and that's the issue. The guy wouldn't have been arrested if he wasn't red. I'm not saying that's unfair, power politics are never fair, but the nations of the world can't go around patting the backs of people who do that. Then, what's next?

Armies removing elected leaders never, ever send out a good message. And as I've said, it's not like he would've gotten much done in four years.

 

[gaasc]

back the fuck up. first they didn't arrest him they took it put it on a plane and sent his commie ass to Costa Rica, besides, i think the international communities actually fell for the ?hundreds of dead people and the jails are full of innocents?crap: only two persons died: a man who got shot by his own group (and it was a group in favor of zelaya) and ?tank man? people on IRC should know besides, NOW we have some 40-odd felonies to arrest him

 

[jetsetter]

Steven Guess
guardian.co.uk, Monday 21 September 2009 14.00 BST

On the heels of a February 2009 Gallup poll showing that only 39% of Americans believe the theory of evolution, a new British film about Darwin has had difficulty finding US distributors, apparently because the topic was deemed too controversial for American audiences.

It's a remarkably low degree of support, even in a nation that flirted with the idea of vice-president Sarah Palin. After all, America has often been seen as an innovator, at the forefront of technological and scientific change.

Perhaps America's distrust of a major scientific theory could be dismissed as part of the country's quirky charm, with no real consequences because the story of creation has little to do with our practical, day-to-day lives. As long as that 39% of disbelievers are making our microchips and producing swine flu vaccine, who cares?

But sadly, such mistrust of science is not limited to the story of creation, but extends to stem cell research, climate change and cloning. The Gallup poll did not capture a scientific debate. It captured another front in the same culture war that is blocking a cap on carbon emissions.

Political and religious opponents of scientific theories try to win not by way of careful comparisons of each side's ideas, a method that would require a great deal of study and knowledge, but by muddying the debate and demonising opponents. It's a tactic utilised to great effect in the US by sceptics of global warming. The faithful can sleep easy knowing that there's a little evidence over here for our side and a little over there for the other side.

As a result, who needs to do any serious thinking or change behaviours? Frankly, what people believe in the comfort of their own homes is not much cause for national concern, even if those ideas are irrational. But if those attitudes are warming our oceans and forestalling medical breakthroughs, it becomes everyone's problem.

To be sure, evolution and climate change are merely theories. But so are relativity and quantum mechanics ? ideas that led to the creation of the modern computer and satellites. The search is on for a grand unified theory of physics, which may one day put Albert Einstein in his place. But in the meantime, do we pretend to know better about gravity?

There is indeed a debate over certain aspects of evolution, but the geological and biological evidence is sufficient to reach a consensus about the general principles for the overwhelming majority of scientists who study the issue. Until scientists come up with a better explanation for the origins of life as we understand it, it is the prevailing view in our institutions of higher learning.

One might look at this approach and say: How is such fidelity to science different from a literal, unquestioning reading of the gospel? It's about the same, except science can change over time as we gather new evidence. If scientists are wrong, there are mechanisms to correct those mistakes. But the creationist view comes from an eternal source which, for it to mean anything, cannot change over time. It is far more dangerous to trust our unchanging traditions in forming our scientific beliefs than the scientific method.

And so in its endless pursuit of winning the culture wars, America finds itself "exceptional" once again on the world stage, captured by Gallup in an unflattering pose. Our nation's professed greatness, ravaged by a deep recession, has received yet another wound by way of its reactionary attitude toward science.

It may be that this is merely a phase, which we will pass through like so many others. But if we do not change our ways and embrace science, we will let our desire to protect our own mythologies undermine our national interests on a wide range of pressing social and political issues.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/sep/21/creation-film-us-science-evolution

More dribble from the Guardian. One does have to wonder if the author ever put himself in the shows of the distributors. A Charles Darwin biopic, something done on television several times, would have most likely made very little money. Charles Darwin studying, sailing on a ship, collecting samples, writing several books and that is about it.

And then there is the accusation that the distributors would refuse the film on religious grounds. He seems to think that the religious right has a foothold in Hollywood or something. The same distributors released "Religulous" without any problems.

 

[BlaRo]

More dribble from the Guardian. One does have to wonder if the author ever put himself in the shows of the distributors. A Charles Darwin biopic, something done on television several times, would have most likely made very little money. Charles Darwin studying, sailing on a ship, collecting samples, writing several books and that is about it.

He was an interesting, well-traveled character who laid the groundwork for one of the most controversial debates known to man. And Hollywood hasn't made biopics on less-deserving people?

And I suppose Jesus was just some bearded, homeless construction guy with no fashion sense and who got nailed to some 2x4s. But ultimately Guess has a point: haven't you noticed how opposition groups are always spreading fear and panic through a blatant ignorance of science? (Well, maybe not you, personally, jetsetter, but everybody else, maybe.) Stem cells are killing our babies, cloning will lead to bad Arnold Schwarzenegger movies, climate change will consume the Earth in a massive fireball, and evolving from chimpanzees is unfathomable.

 

[AiR]

Hang on - Pinochet - now there was a democratically elected President.

Pinochet seized power in a military coup in 1973.

back the fuck up. first they didn't arrest him they took it put it on a plane and sent his commie ass to Costa Rica, besides, i think the international communities actually fell for the ?hundreds of dead people and the jails are full of innocents?crap: only two persons died: a man who got shot by his own group (and it was a group in favor of zelaya) and ?tank man? people on IRC should know besides, NOW we have some 40-odd felonies to arrest him

Extrajudicial executions that have been attributed to the de facto Micheletti government include 19 year-old Isis Obed Murillo Mencias, shot in the head on 5 July by soldiers when Zelaya's plane was trying to land at Toncontin Airport.[77][123]; Roger Iv?n Bados, former union leader, member of the Democratic Unification Party and Bloque Popular, shot dead on 11 July while entering his home in San Pedro Sula[117][124]; 40 year-old campesino leader and Democratic Unification Party member Ram?n Garc?a on 12 July, after he was forced by unknown people to get off a bus,[77][117][124]; 23 year-old Pedro Magdiel Mu?oz Salvador, detained by police during anti-coup protests and taken to an El Para?so police station on 24 July, and found at 6:30 am the following morning with 42 stab wounds[125][126][127]; 38 year-old high school teacher Roger Abraham Vallejo Soriano, shot in the head by security forces during protests on 31 July, died on 1 August[128][129][130]; school teacher Martin Florencio Rivera, killed on 2 August as he left the mourning procession for Roger Vallejo, stabbed 27 times[131].

On 19 August 2009 Amnesty International released a report detailing alleged human rights abuses of the de facto government. According to CNN's reading, several hundred people have been arbitrarily arrested and beaten by government forces. The report includes testimony from, and photographs of, several people who were baton-whipped and detained by police officers. "They beat us if we raised our heads; they beat us when they were getting us into the police cars," said a student whom Amnesty International interviewed in late July at the police station where he was being detained. "They said, 'Cry and we'll stop.'" Multiple requests to the government for comment went unanswered. The government has said in the past that the demonstrators were arrested for engaging in violence and provoking authorities.[101][118]

On 21 August 2009, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR), released a preliminary report documenting instances of sexual violence, excessive use of military force, about 3500 to 4000 arbitrary detentions, threats at gunpoint against judges responsible for habeas corpus and several confirmed deaths and disappearances allegedly attributable to the de facto government. The IACHR also alleged that the government has threatened, detained and beaten members of the media, creating "an atmosphere of intimidation that inhibits the free exercise of freedom of expression."[119]

There's more. But really, it is beside the point. Zelaya is the democratically elected leader and he was deposed of via a military coup. The international community must not and will not support such actions. And in this matter there is complete unanimity in the entire world, not a single nation has expressed support for Micheletti, the UN has passed a resolution that calls for the restoration of Zelaya to power, all member states of the European Union have withdrawn their ambassadors from Honduras and the World Bank has paused all lending to Honduras until the matter is resolved.

The easiest way is to restore Zelaya to power until new elections can be held.

 

[nomix]

Pinochet was a market liberalist liked a lot by both Maggie and Ronald, he was a murderer, which did not count. Because he was a market liberalist liked a lot by both Maggie and Ronald.

And Salvador Allende was overthrown in a millitary coup d'etat supported by that wonderful cherry boy Richard Nixon.

Lovely.

 

[British_Rover]

that's the problem, it was not a coup d'etat. the constitution is very clear that if you try to modify the constitution your presidential title is revoked and the congress can elect a new president.

Hang on a second I didn't think there was any impeachment procedure in the current Honduras constitution and that was part of the whole problem. There was no easy way to remove the president from power and that is why there was a coup.

 

[Dogbert]

But ultimately Guess has a point: haven't you noticed how opposition groups are always spreading fear and panic through a blatant ignorance of science? (Well, maybe not you, personally, jetsetter, but everybody else, maybe.) Stem cells are killing our babies, cloning will lead to bad Arnold Schwarzenegger movies, climate change will consume the Earth in a massive fireball, and evolving from chimpanzees is unfathomable.

They also have the most pretentious, "positive" names: pro-life, intelligent design, etc.

 

[nomix]

I think it is blatantly arrogant to be pro-life and still support state murder.

And now, I am not in any way comparing unborned babies to murderers and/or terrorists.

Intelligent design is fundamentally stupid, and small government is an insult to both the concept of government, not to mention that a lot of these people wants the government to be so small that it will fit into your bedroom.

Feel provoked? Though luck, first ammendment. Except in Norway, we put that in from the beginning.

/Rant.

 

[Dogbert]

Intelligent design is fundamentally stupid, and small government is an insult to both the concept of government, not to mention that a lot of these people wants the government to be so small that it will fit into your bedroom.

"Small" government and "big" government are both ideally good on paper... but that's ideally. Both extremes require a level of trust in people that is just unreasonable to expect.

 

[freeferrarisdonotexist]

"Small" government and "big" government are both ideally good on paper... but that's ideally. Both extremes require a level of trust in people that is just unreasonable to expect.

+1, been trying to say that to people for years.

 

[argatoga]

I'm for both. Small Federal government doing only the essentials (military, foreign policy, standards measurements/currency, etc) and bigger local governments providing social services (welfare, school, medical, etc). Local government is easier to control, more knowledgeable than a bureaucrat thousand of miles away, and adaptable. And what works in MA won't work in TX, so why should they be forced to be the same when they aren't?

 

[gaasc]

There's more. But really, it is beside the point. Zelaya is the democratically elected leader and he was deposed of via a military coup. The international community must not and will not support such actions. And in this matter there is complete unanimity in the entire world, not a single nation has expressed support for Micheletti, the UN has passed a resolution that calls for the restoration of Zelaya to power, all member states of the European Union have withdrawn their ambassadors from Honduras and the World Bank has paused all lending to Honduras until the matter is resolved.

The easiest way is to restore Zelaya to power until new elections can be held.

the international community is controlled by 2 persons, Hugo Chavez and his oil-money. and barack obama to which Honduras is nothing more than a useless pawn.

the tiny little problem with restoring zelaya, is that if you restore it, it will stay there. FOREVER. much like his butt-friend Chavez really. CNN didn't do it's research and it has been confirmed that:

a)the ballot that he wanted to keep himself in power forever was rigged.
b) the unons and the Democratic Unification Party are funded by the FARC
c)HE RIGGED THE 2006 ELECTIONS THAT MADE HIM PRESIDENT IN THE FIRST CASE
d)he nicked $2,102,231 from the central-bank to finance his illegal ballot

Hang on a second I didn't think there was any impeachment procedure in the current Honduras constitution and that was part of the whole problem. There was no easy way to remove the president from power and that is why there was a coup.

the procedure is: if he wants to keep himself in power take him away from power inmmediately

 

[AiR]

the international community is controlled by 2 persons, Hugo Chavez and his oil-money. and barack obama to which Honduras is nothing more than a useless pawn.

You honestly believe that? Hugo Chavez and Barak Obama constitutes the entirety of the international community?

 

[gaasc]

not, it's composed by many people. all of which are in one way or another pawns of the 2 above

 

[shad_68]

I'm sorry, but that's just silly. Chavez is nowhere near powerful enough to be one of two people that "control the entire international community".
Saying there's only two relevant people itself is equally absurd. Maybe in the time of USA vs USSR, but nowadays there's a far larger number of powerful players in international relations with independant interests and agendas.

 

[gaasc]

now lets see, i nitice you said nothing about obama, good call. the US government is stupid and mad, small wonder Texas wants to be free from them.

second, to understand the power of Chavez. you have to understand that 70% of oil in the U.S is impoerted from Venezuela, you have money, you have power.

I see you are German, that would explain this and AiR's post. although the European union is as powerful, or just very slightly less powerful, that the U.S government. it exerts a much lesser influence in this political conflict for reasons i can't quite understand.

besides, this is a Honduran problem, the only Hondurans agreeing with him are members of unions (you thought the UAW was bad, think twice), gang leaders, drug dealers, and the ex-presi's family, and low-class uneducated people from rural areas (i like to call them useful idiots). the rest of us just want him to fuck off

 

[nomix]

Hugo Chaves is powerful in international politics as Mette-Marit, the Norwegian Crown Princess is powerful in international fashion.

Hugo Chaves is a symbol for leftist people in Latin America (and a lot of people on the left in Europe has taken up the American tradition of seeing him as a bastard, but our bastard).

He does not, however, in any way or form control international politics. Barack Obama would be something else, but he isn't exactly a communist, even if he wants to get better relations to Latin America (he's a lot like Teddie Roosevelt in that respect, and we all know he was a commie).

People with more influance on international politics and international opinion in no particular order:

- Vladimir Putin and his puppet (Medvedev)
- Gordon Brown
- Tony Blair
- Sarcozy
- That woman in Germany
- Neil Kinnick
- Boris Johnson
- The guy who's currently running China
- Sarah Palin
- Newt Gingrich
- The Governor of Delaware
- Silvio Berlusconi
- Jebediah "Jed" Bartlet (yes, from the West Wing)
- Bob Dylan and
- Dawid Bowie

Plus about ten thousand other names or so.

Really, Hugo Chaves is not an internationally powerful man.

 

[hajj]

now lets see, i nitice you said nothing about obama, good call. the US government is stupid and mad, small wonder Texas wants to be free from them.

second, to understand the power of Chavez. you have to understand that 70% of oil in the U.S is impoerted from Venezuela, you have money, you have power.

I see you are German, that would explain this and AiR's post. although the European union is as powerful, or just very slightly less powerful, that the U.S government. it exerts a much lesser influence in this political conflict for reasons i can't quite understand.

besides, this is a Honduran problem, the only Hondurans agreeing with him are members of unions (you thought the UAW was bad, think twice), gang leaders, drug dealers, and the ex-presi's family, and low-class uneducated people from rural areas (i like to call them useful idiots). the rest of us just want him to fuck off

Not really, they are second or third, but less than 10% afterall.