Who do you support (in the scandal)?

Who do you support (in the scandal)?

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McLaren was found guilty, they have received their penalty. I don't see how anyone can "support" McLaren in this case, they cheated and got caught, as easy as that.

2nd edit!! edit: to the threadstarter, instead of just voting, why not explain why you voted for a team that knowingly cheated, they denied it=lied to the governing body of the sport you apparently love and brought the whole sport nel merda! How can you support that? Ferrari being sore losers isn't good enough, if there are rules, they should be followed by everyone and ferrari should be applauded for pushnig hard in this case!

If you vote for McLaren please justify it!!
 
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^ Exactly my thoughts... they played dirty and got caught. Simple as that.
 
teletubby-warrior said:
Where''s the option for neither?
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There is none. As for an explanation, I still feel that McLaren as a whole have been victimised by actions of one or two rogue employees. We will know everything tomorrow when they publish the evidence.
 
^ So what? It's always just one or two rogue employees that mess things up... the employer is responsible for keeping their employees in check.
 
avanti said:
McLaren was found guilty, they have received their penalty. I don't see how anyone can "support" McLaren in this case
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Because you can disagree with a guilty verdict, you can disagree with the punishment for being found guilty and because a court isn't God and isn't infallable and unquestionable and nobody that believes in justice should ever think or act as if it were.

Using bold font doesn't make you look any more right, it just makes you look like a troll amongst people having a sensible debate, which on the most part we've managed to keep it to on this issue.

Anyway back to the point, I support McLaren in this issue because I think there are several inconsistencies with their treatment relative to the treatment of others, and because the organization as a whole hasn't done anything wrong. See the other thread for more details on why I think that is.
 
GraemeH said:
Using bold font doesn't make you look any more right, it just makes you look like a troll amongst people having a sensible debate, which on the most part we've managed to keep it to on this issue.
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Is that directed towards me? I'd love to have a debate, but don't talk about me behind my back; reply to my posts.

Edit: I just realized you may not have been talking about me. If that's the case, I'm sorry.
 
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The reason I wrote it in bold was that people first of all just vote, not writing anything, then there are people that write stuff like "it sucks, crap etc" how are you supposed to have a discussion like that...?
I am not saying I am right, but if we are gonna discuss, lets do it in a mature way!
 
teletubby-warrior said:
Is that directed towards me? I'd love to have a debate, but don't talk about me behind my back; reply to my posts.

Edit: I just realized you may not have been talking about me. If that's the case, I'm sorry.
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Yeah it was the second post in this topic :)
 
Shawn said:
^ So what? It's always just one or two rogue employees that mess things up... the employer is responsible for keeping their employees in check.
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So I guess Ferrari willingly gave the info to McLaren because one of their employee did it.
 
McLaren didn't benefit from the information. So they shouldn't be screwed this badly. One of their employees screwed up, the company and everyone involved shouldn't be held accountable.

That, and Ferrari is in bed with the FIA.
 
I think the punishment was pretty harsh. Yes, an organization is responsible for a couple of employees, but, surely, they've been sacked by McLaren, no? Secondly, wasn't it an employee at Ferrari who initiated the scandal by offering information in the first place? If McLaren is penalized for the actions of one employee, shouldn't Ferrari be penalized as well for their employee engaging in something unsportsmanlike?

At the least Hamilton and Alonso get to stay in the drivers' championship. They had no part in this.

Just my thoughts.
 
You want my reasoning on why its a 'crap' decision?

I don't see how the FIA can punish McLaren when deliberate spying and espionage is part and parcel of F1, and has been for many years. The decision to strip McLaren of its constructors points and impose a massive great fine is also extremely excessive when you consider what happened between Ferrari and Toyota a couple of years ago. Back then it was a couple of ex Ferrari employees who took the designs to Toyota, who used them when designing their 2003 car. Of course, they were later sacked, along with a few high ranking Toyota personnel (Gustav Brunner, Ove Andersson). Toyota itself escaped punishment. Why should McLaren then suffer such a penalty when the circumstances are basically the same? In fact, McLaren never even used the dossier to implement designs on their car. Besides, why fine the team anyway? Where does that money go?

Why aren't Ferrari being punished for this as well? If you're going to punish McLaren for the actions of one or two employees, then punish Ferrari, as it was their actions which led to the dossier ending up at McLaren (or more specifically, at Coughlan's home). By being unable to prevent the theft of the dossier, Ferrari are guilty as well and deserve to be punished. My Toyota example proves its not the first time it has happened, so Ferrari really need to get their house in order, if nothing else. Also, how did the (Italian) media get hold of such confidential stories through-out the year anyway? Fed by Ferrari no doubt.
 
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