best nordschleife race sim for PC

bigfoot1942

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Messages
864
Location
Holland
since i really like the nurnburgring i am learning the track by racing it on my PC, so once i buy my own car i wont crash it into one of the may corners it has ;)

I have GTR and ive downloaded the nordscheife track. But im curious if there are better sims or perhaps sims with a more accurate track. i watched the GT4 timedemo and i noticed there were way more trees and stuff.

So who knows another good race-game that has the "nordschleife" in it?
for the PC that is.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2003
Messages
4,905
Location
Decorah, IA
Car(s)
2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STI (USDM)
I think Grand Prix Legends is pretty good, but I think that's the historic track (although a lot of it is still the same).
 

Viper007Bond

Chicken Nugget Connoisseur
STAFF MEMBER
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
31,044
Location
Portland, Oregon
Car(s)
2008 Dodge Viper, 2006 MB CLS55 AMG
GT4's > all :D

Trees and stuff in it aren't prefect, but whoop-de-doo. It's the track that counts.
 

The_Finn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
4,565
Location
Worcestersheshershire MA
Car(s)
99 Volvo V70R
yeah the GT4 track is accurate down to like 5 inches... it was one of their big points at E3 "most accurate Nurburgring ever"

TF
 

MXM

I paid for this title
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
5,623
Location
Finland
I wonder how they managed to map it. GPS isn't accurate enough, photos made from air give some directions (well, not down to inches), but doesn't give any altitude information...
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2003
Messages
4,905
Location
Decorah, IA
Car(s)
2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STI (USDM)
The_Finn said:
yeah the GT4 track is accurate down to like 5 inches... it was one of their big points at E3 "most accurate Nurburgring ever"

TF
More importantly, it has the bumps down way better than any other sim I've played.
 

Yayox

Active Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
468
Location
Guatemala
They acrually drive trough the track, they have a team that go to each track to drive and get the exact feel... they also use photographs... GPS i dunno but probably
 

Roman

Resident Skydiver
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Messages
1,647
Location
Qu?bec, Canada
Car(s)
Boring '02 Accent.
MXM said:
I wonder how they managed to map it. GPS isn't accurate enough, photos made from air give some directions (well, not down to inches), but doesn't give any altitude information...
I work in relation with Land Surveyors and believe me GPS is a lot more accurate now than a couple years back, even for elevation.

It is certainly quite a project to map it all to within five inches but it can be done.
 

Viper007Bond

Chicken Nugget Connoisseur
STAFF MEMBER
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
31,044
Location
Portland, Oregon
Car(s)
2008 Dodge Viper, 2006 MB CLS55 AMG
ESPNSTI said:
The_Finn said:
yeah the GT4 track is accurate down to like 5 inches... it was one of their big points at E3 "most accurate Nurburgring ever"

TF
More importantly, it has the bumps down way better than any other sim I've played.
Yeah, I remember on Top Gear, when Jeremy went to the Ring, how one guy said he learned the track on his PC or whatever but how that the bumps were totally not there.

GT4's is bumpy as heck. :?
 

Kip_6666

I Bought This Title :o
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
3,177
Location
The Netherlands
Gps is only exact to 5 meters or something i believe. The us army made sure the civilian stuff is less exact than theirs. So i don't think they only used gps.
 

zenon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
2,545
Location
Vancouver, Canada
Kip_6666 said:
Gps is only exact to 5 meters or something i believe. The us army made sure the civilian stuff is less exact than theirs. So i don't think they only used gps.
No, thats wrong.

Like Roman, I've done a lot of GPS mapping myself. It all depends on your tools. Most of my experience is with a Trimble backpack mounted GPS unit worth around $15,000. It generally gets within 1-3 meters of accuracy. The more you pay, the more accurate you get though. I believe the most expensive surveying GPS units can get accuracy levels within 1-3 centimeters. The amount of satellites in range also effects your accuracy, so when they were mapping the Nurburgring, they probably took quite a few weeks waiting for good accuracy for all the points on the map.
 

Kip_6666

I Bought This Title :o
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
3,177
Location
The Netherlands
Is it wrong?

Military (and selected civilian) users still enjoy some technical advantages which can give quicker satellite lock and increased accuracy. The increased accuracy comes mostly from being able to use both the L1 and L2 frequencies and thus better compensate for the varying signal delay in the ionosphere (see above). Commercial GPS receivers are also required to have limits on the velocities and altitudes at which they will report fix coordinates; this is to prevent them from being used to create improvised cruise or ballistic missiles.

I was thinking about that, my bad if i got the exact amout wrong. But is it ever exact enough to properly get the layout of a track these days? A few meters is alot..
 

Hazardous

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
2,230
Location
Southern Finland
Car(s)
None :/
Re: best nordschleife race sim for PC

bigfoot1942 said:
since i really like the nurnburgring i am learning the track by racing it on my PC, so once i buy my own car i wont crash it into one of the may corners it has ;)

I have GTR and ive downloaded the nordscheife track. But im curious if there are better sims or perhaps sims with a more accurate track. i watched the GT4 timedemo and i noticed there were way more trees and stuff.

So who knows another good race-game that has the "nordschleife" in it?
for the PC that is.

GT4 was mentioned a lot of times, but it really isn't PC game is it? :D

For PC, only Papyrus has really modeled the track for PC, for GPL. All the other versions I know are more or less derived from that one, including the one you can get for GTR. It's also been converted for NASCAR Racing 2003 and a few F1 games.

About GTR version. Even though it has been modified(what I read it was originally intended to be included in GTR release, so SimBin developed it) it still has the 1960's layout from GPL version. I tried it yesterday and driving wise it's very similar, but the surroundings have been redone and I think some crests and such leveled down a bit. I did have fun when I took a Morgan for a spin there(literally), but I still prefer this layout with GPL.

So, no modern Nordschleife for PC, but hopefully this will change.
 

The_Finn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
4,565
Location
Worcestersheshershire MA
Car(s)
99 Volvo V70R
Kip_6666 said:
Is it wrong?

Military (and selected civilian) users still enjoy some technical advantages which can give quicker satellite lock and increased accuracy. The increased accuracy comes mostly from being able to use both the L1 and L2 frequencies and thus better compensate for the varying signal delay in the ionosphere (see above). Commercial GPS receivers are also required to have limits on the velocities and altitudes at which they will report fix coordinates; this is to prevent them from being used to create improvised cruise or ballistic missiles.

I was thinking about that, my bad if i got the exact amout wrong. But is it ever exact enough to properly get the layout of a track these days? A few meters is alot..


Carrier Positioning Accuracy < 1 cm - 30 cm (2D), 1.6 cm to 45 cm (3D)

This is the highest level of accuracy possible using the GPS and is the technique that land surveyors and engineers generally use. This method is often referred to as "Survey grade" GPS. The method is exactly the same as "Differential Positioning" with a few notable exceptions.

Two receivers are used; one receiver over a known location (the base or reference receiver) and the second (Rover or roving receiver) is placed over the new or unknown location. The receivers track and record data from the same satellites at the same time recording similar information. The data is eventually transferred from the receivers to a computer. Specialized software is used to 'correct' the data.

The main differences are:
GPS receiver type ? a 'survey grade' receiver must be used. These receivers are somewhat larger and usually much more expensive than those used for single point positioning.

one would assume that PD has the budget to put into all the equipment

TF
 

zenon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
2,545
Location
Vancouver, Canada
^ Basically, yes. GPSs that are designed to give you points quickly won't give you anywhere near the accuracy you get with surveying grade GPS units.

All of the mapping I've done has been done quickly with a backpack unit, but error-corrected and layered on top of ortho-photos. Our maps were almost always accurate to under 1 meter.
 

oliB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
1,391
Location
Germany
Viper007Bond said:
GT4's is bumpy as heck. :?

But unfortunately already outdated, they "ironed" the Ring a bit during winter. ;)

cya
Oliver
 

Hazardous

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
2,230
Location
Southern Finland
Car(s)
None :/
I saw this and thought bigfoot might be interested(and maybe some others too)... A dude in RaceSimCentral is modeling the current Norschleife for NetKar Pro. If it's not interesting enough in itself, here's a screenshot:
http://www.windestam.com/~si3v/ring.jpg

Very much work in progress, but looks great. Originally posted in this thread at RSCNet.org.
 

CrazyCavia

Active Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
156
Location
Assen, NL
Car(s)
1995 BMW 316i Coupe
The guy on Top Gear said he learned it on the X-Box. Which has to be Project Gotham Racing 2.
Personal best time with PGR2: 6:29 with a Porsche GT1.

It may not be the most realistic simulation but playing it on Live with 8 people, big fun.
 
Top