Another school shooting in Finland

Please read my message correctly. I said the problem is that in a society with lots of firearms there should be more precautions ... and unfortunately there aren't that many in Finland or in the States. For proof, the cop let the killer go the day before the incident. He just called him to an interview and said: "Oh well, he looks like a good chap, I'll give him a break." That's the problem right there. People do show signs of having a disturbance before they do things like this, and they only succeed because the people that see the signs choose to ignore them.

Imagine you slept with a woman who later turns out to be the girlfriend of some thug. You'd:
- Look a little off
- Want a gun

This happens more often than school shootings. I don't think you can blame the cops just because they gave a gun to someone who looked like he might have been a bit off.
 
banning guns alltogether doesn't work, although in this case he would not have been able to kill so many people if he only had a knife or something.
 
For proof, the cop let the killer go the day before the incident. He just called him to an interview and said: "Oh well, he looks like a good chap, I'll give him a break." That's the problem right there. People do show signs of having a disturbance before they do things like this, and they only succeed because the people that see the signs choose to ignore them.

Apparently even if he had been judged unfit to have a gun licence, he would still have had three days to turn his gun in. So, taking away his licence wouldn't necessarily have prevented anything... :|
 
I really really can't understand what kind of bird gets stuck in the brains of a school shooter and compells them to do such stupidities. It's major proof that our world is getting more and more f***ed up with every generation.

I'm in the 12th grade now, and I tend to see more and more 4th-5th graders who swear at each other as if they're at the market or in a low-life bar. And our teachers are constantly saying what nuisances those kids are. And I think it's something to do with early contact with teh Interwebz and all its dark secrets, which can twist an unprepared mind.

Honestly, when and if I have a kid, I'll try to keep him away from stuff like that as long as possible: no fancy telephones, only one PC in the house and with very restricted access to it (or I'll break out my ancient Pentium 1 computer) and encouraging him/her to read from an early age and focus on his/her education as much as possible. And a lot of air time a.k.a. outside the house.
 
Firearms don't cause problems. Firearms only make it easier for the already fucked up people to solve their "problems". Britain hasn't got leagalised weapons and they have lots of murders and such with knives..
The firearms aren't the problem, the problem comes down to who gives guns to people that are suspected of being unfit to carry one.

As for knives, yes, people can be killed with knives, BUT:
1. It's harder for someone to kill someone else with a knife. Sure, they can kills them, but they'd either have to stab them repeatedly and hit some vital points very quickly, and it's harder to do that if the victim tries to defend himself/herself. And to hurt someone with a knife you actually have to get close to them. If you see someone coming at you with a knife, do you stand still or do you run? And even if you attacker comes at you from behind and you don't see them pulling out a knife, someone else sees it and screams. And if he pulls the knife in the last minute and stabs you ince, guess what? Chances are you're just hurt and can probably defend yourself, even if not to your best abilities. And the best thing about a knife, you can only hurt one person at a time, so you can't do this sort of massacre with a knife. Someone would get seriously hurt/die, but everyone else would escape. And also, it's quite easier to get away from an attacker with a knife rather than from an attacker with a gun.

Imagine you slept with a woman who later turns out to be the girlfriend of some thug. You'd:
- Look a little off
- Want a gun

This happens more often than school shootings. I don't think you can blame the cops just because they gave a gun to someone who looked like he might have been a bit off.
I'd want a gun anyway and I might get a license in the near future. I'd only use it for hunting and target practice, though. Maybe even 2 .. one shotgun, one hunting rifle with a scope (one for hunting from a distance, one for close encounters). Thinking of picking up archery too.

But seriously, yes, I can blame the cops for giving a gun to someone who looks a bit off. In this case, the guy was pushing the limit and I doubt he could present evidence that he was more in danger than he placed people in front of him. You see, I want to own guns too and I'd shoot deer and rabits and bears with them ... but I wouldn't brag much and I certainly won't post videos on the internet with my guns. I wouldn't even post pictures. In fact, I'd try my best not to tell anyone if I had guns, even with a license, I'd tell them if they ask me, but if they want to assume I don't have guns it's for the best. Plus, if someone tries to rob you, would you want them to know that you have firearms in your house?

banning guns alltogether doesn't work, although in this case he would not have been able to kill so many people if he only had a knife or something.
My thoughts exactly ... you stab a guy, everyone else runs away. One person dies instead of countless many. And guess what? Then the attacker can't turn the knife on himself and kill himself ... and the police can capture him more easily, so anyone that does kill receives the law's punishment.

I really really can't understand what kind of bird gets stuck in the brains of a school shooter and compells them to do such stupidities. It's major proof that our world is getting more and more f***ed up with every generation.

I'm in the 12th grade now, and I tend to see more and more 4th-5th graders who swear at each other as if they're at the market or in a low-life bar. And our teachers are constantly saying what nuisances those kids are. And I think it's something to do with early contact with teh Interwebz and all its dark secrets, which can twist an unprepared mind.

Honestly, when and if I have a kid, I'll try to keep him away from stuff like that as long as possible: no fancy telephones, only one PC in the house and with very restricted access to it (or I'll break out my ancient Pentium 1 computer) and encouraging him/her to read from an early age and focus on his/her education as much as possible. And a lot of air time a.k.a. outside the house.
No. The only way for someone to raise a kid well these days is to be involved in their lives as much as possible. If there is a time when kids spend less and less time with their parents, it's now. Lots of parents these days spend almost all the day at work, working hard to raise a family and most of the time, when they come home, they're too tired and they watch TV rather than spend time with their kids ... so when exactly do they get to actually talk to their kids anymore? On the weekends? That's not how you raise a kid.

Unfortunately for me that was true most of the time with my parents, but fortunately for me I was raised as a small child by my grandparents who instilled very good values in me and my parents were with me enough of the times to keep me out of trouble.

So you want to know how to instill good values from yourself onto your kids? Easy: spend as much time with them as possible, and especially don't be afraid to have fun with your kids .. spending time with them only to do homework won't help ... find a few things all the family likes to do together and do those as much as you can. But most importantly, make it a rule to sit at the table, at least at dinner time with your kids ... a good excuse to talk to them for an extended period of time each day and share with each other what everyone did that day.
 
Haven't we had this debate like 20 times already on this forum? :lol:
 
^Yes, and it's going to come up again. We might as well just lock the threads as they are posted ... mods, please leave a last word of condolences to those in suffering and lock it. Thank you.
 
^Yes, and it's going to come up again. We might as well just lock the threads as they are posted ... mods, please leave a last word of condolences to those in suffering and lock it. Thank you.

How nice of you to decide this for everybody. .l..
 
Doing nothing to prevent these incidents is the worst thing that can be done. Every time it happens there's an outpouring of "Oh that's so tragic." and then we all go back to waiting until it happens again. And in my opinion banning guns isn't doing something to prevent it. The recent stabbing spree in Japan showed that a knife can be just as deadly as a gun. If someone wants to do something badly enough they will find a way. The best we can do is allow means to protect ourselves and minimize the damage.

The other thing that irks me about these shootings is the gun is so quickly blamed for the whole thing. When an elderly man ran his car into a crowded market nobody blamed the car. When terrorists hijacked a plane and flew it into a skyscraper nobody blamed the plane. So why is the gun at fault when somebody goes on a rampage like this?
 
But then again when an elderly runs his car into a crowd, it raises questions, whether the elderly shouldn't be subject to stricter medical tests when renewing their licenses, the 9/11 led to massive restrictions and precautions in air traffic. So it's natural that gun ownership is questioned in situations like that. If nuclear bombs were universally available, so that every kid that feels mistreated by the society could blow up the whole city, would you say 'yeah, well, let's not blame the nuclear boms'?
 
Oh so sad - I like Scandinavians in general and Finns in particular - I am so sorry. I hope that your country comes up with a solution to prevent this in future.
 
But then again when an elderly runs his car into a crowd, it raises questions, whether the elderly shouldn't be subject to stricter medical tests when renewing their licenses, the 9/11 led to massive restrictions and precautions in air traffic. So it's natural that gun ownership is questioned in situations like that. If nuclear bombs were universally available, so that every kid that feels mistreated by the society could blow up the whole city, would you say 'yeah, well, let's not blame the nuclear boms'?
In that situation I would not place blame on the bomb because the psycho who set it off would be responsible. Even though questions were raised after those other incidents nobody proposed outright banning of cars or air travel. They instead went after the root causes of the problems. Yet every time a shooting happens there's an outcry to ban guns but the weapons aren't the problem. They're tools that disturbed individuals use to make themselves heard. Maybe if someone would have listened to them in the first place they wouldn't need to let a gun do the talking.
 
Tighter weapon rules would have made it more difficult for both of the school shooters because they would not have had access to handguns. I doubt they would've even tried similar acts if they would have been forced to go with knives or some other melee weapon, because it's unlikely they could have caused as many deaths and there would have been a considerable risk of getting caught alive and having to suffer the consequences of their acts.

That said, I do agree with the fact that guns are not the problem. However, the actual problems will not be solved immediately (hell, nobody even knows what the exact problem is or how to solve it!). In the meantime, I think stricter weapon laws and maybe even an outright ban of handguns is a valid short term solution. Either that or loosen the laws so much that everyone has them which would make it possible to defend yourself against others with handguns, but there's no way in hell that's gonna happen.
 
Tighter weapon rules would have made it more difficult for both of the school shooters because they would not have had access to handguns. I doubt they would've even tried similar acts if they would have been forced to go with knives or some other melee weapon, because it's unlikely they could have caused as many deaths and there would have been a considerable risk of getting caught alive and having to suffer the consequences of their acts.

That said, I do agree with the fact that guns are not the problem. However, the actual problems will not be solved immediately (hell, nobody even knows what the exact problem is or how to solve it!). In the meantime, I think stricter weapon laws and maybe even an outright ban of handguns is a valid short term solution. Either that or loosen the laws so much that everyone has them which would make it possible to defend yourself against others with handguns, but there's no way in hell that's gonna happen.


The problem is that it's difficult to know what actually works or not, whether or not you're actually preventing anything. The largest shooting spree here was with weapons that were totally legally at the time (35 dead, 37 wounded)
 
Oh so sad - I like Scandinavians in general and Finns in particular - I am so sorry. I hope that your country comes up with a solution to prevent this in future.

There is no country that has managed to stop crazy people from doing crazy things and I suspect Finland will fail too. :| What I do hope is that people stop blaming games& movies for insanity.
 
Great, the West Baptist church loonies have said that they will come to stage a protest at the funeral claiming this shooter was sent by god to punish Finland for our Gay rights laws and such.

Although they threathen to do this last year when we had the other shooting but they didnt go through with there plans.
 
Well, I doubt stricter laws in Finland would have stopped this. Casing point in shoolshotings, the shooters in Columbine broke over 19 firearm-laws in obtaining their weapons. Did those laws make a big difference when the terror was done?

Crazy school shooters and criminals ignores anti gun laws, law abiding citizens don't. By banning guns you are only depriving citizens of their chance to protect them self from criminal and violent people.

I hope those church loonies will find some sense in themselves and not bother the families inflicted.
 
Great, the West Baptist church loonies have said that they will come to stage a protest at the funeral claiming this shooter was sent by god to punish Finland for our Gay rights laws and such.

Although they threathen to do this last year when we had the other shooting but they didnt go through with there plans.

They did that when a guy got killed on a bus here, but since this as Alberta a whole bunch of people promised to show up at the funeral and kick their asses, so they didn't come.
 
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