GM to Pull Chevy From Europe to Focus on Expanding Opel

[Spectre]

Yeah, Doblos are massive...

Sorry, was thinking of the Ducato - not hard to get the names for two crap Fiats not sold in your country wrong.

This pile:

Let me highlight something in the below statement:

So it just doesn't match a van on the appearance of utilitarian functionality, and therefore is harder to comprehend for the average person - because it appears more wasteful than something like a Sprinter.

That's how I see it anyway. And I get pick-ups. I even kind-of like them, but I could never drive one in this country. Too much bad image.

And that's the problem - perception. It's not that they actually *are* significantly more wasteful, it's just that people *think* they are. Never mind that the Sprinters in commercial service get the same or worse fuel economy than a comparable F-series truck; F-150 gets better gas mileage in the real world than the Sprinter 1500, the diesel F-350 gets the same or better fuel economy than the 3500 diesel Sprinter while making a lot more power. (How did the Germans make such a small diesel get such crap fuel economy, anyway?)

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The shortest F350 is over half a metre longer than the SWB Sprinter. A SWB crewcab F350 is over a full metre longer than a SWB Sprinter. Only 5mm over that metre, but still.
It's also an inch wider I won't get into the practicality of either, just setting some facts straight.

You forget the US Sprinter has the larger US spec bumpers on it, which makes it longer. And MBUSA doesn't seem to list overall length on their website.

My landlord has a later Super Duty truck. Next time he's over here, I can park next to him and you can see the size difference in photographic evidence.

All that said, those photos I took don't lie - the SWB Sprinter isn't a lot smaller than my "super gargantuan impractical in Europe never going to work here because its too big" crew cab long bed pickup truck. The Sprinter is only significantly shorter in one dimension, length. And that, not by much.

 

[Cowboy]

Spectre, will I obviously agree with you you are fighting a lost battle here, they won't get it, they will never get it, they don't WANT to ever get it.
They understand spartan utility vans and tiny Japanese trucks who are horrible to drive and shatter spines on a regular basis, but it gets shit moved, they understand 'normal' luxury cars that can hold people in comfort and ride quality but nothing else, they will never understand that a vehicle exists that can be and do both.

You can't really blame them either, most experience Europeans ever get with a pick up is 'that one guy' they know who has a hi-lux, or 'that one dude in town' they have never talked to that drives a yank, but they heard from 'some guy/ their uncle/ a co-worker' (who inevitably drives some French POS), who has never seen one up close either, let alone rode in one, that it gets horrible gas mileage, that it has no brakes, and that it eats children.

Basically it would be like you and me discussing needlepoint, neither of us would have a clue what we are on about....

Now can we please leave it at this, I have had this conversation a 1000 times with all sorts of people, and all I can say that in this Europeans are beyond hope and destined for suffering through life cramming themselves in tiny shitboxes with a baby stroller up their ass forever, serves them right really

 

[AiR]

Plenty of pickups around, nothing wrong with the concept. You have to go where there are trees to see any, but in the forest they make sense (if wheelbase is reasonable). Toyota Hilux, Mitsubishi L200, and the Amarok for example. Plenty of those. They are reasonably priced, reasonable to insure and to tax and have accessible after sale support should anything go wrong. If the US car makers could offer something like that, they could be competitive, but they don't and won't.

ed
Hey after some digging in the website Ford apparently have the Ranger to compete with the Amarok. Never seen one though.

 

[narf]

All that said, those photos I took don't lie - the SWB Sprinter isn't a lot smaller than my "super gargantuan impractical in Europe never going to work here because its too big" crew cab long bed pickup truck. The Sprinter is only significantly shorter in one dimension, length. And that, not by much.

Photos don't lie, but what do they actually say? An old F350 is longer than a new Sprinter. If you want a realistic comparison you'll have to go find an old Sprinter. I'll save you the trouble, its shortest version is 27cm shorter than the current shortest.

Edit: I see the problem now. You guys don't even get a SWB Sprinter (3250mm), your shortest version is the medium wheelbase one (3665mm). Any comparison you make against that is pointless as can be with regards to practicality in Europe - if we think that's too large we just buy a shorter one.

 

[Cowboy]

Plenty of pickups around, nothing wrong with the concept. You have to go where there are trees to see any, but in the forest they make sense (if wheelbase is reasonable). Toyota Hilux, Mitsubishi L200, and the Amarok for example. Plenty of those. They are reasonably priced, reasonable to insure and to tax and have accessible after sale support should anything go wrong. If the US car makers could offer something like that, they could be competitive, but they don't and won't.

ed
Hey after some digging in the website Ford apparently have the Ranger to compete with the Amarok. Never seen one though.

The new Ranger is actually pretty good, but it suffers from previous generation awfullness syndrome, so it will not sell well.

 

[Hbriz]

And it's not American at all

The Ranger is actually very good. Very popular here too, and deservedly so.

 

[MacGuffin]

Apparently not everyone is happy with GM's decision.

It looks like the Opel dealers are kinda shocked by it.

Most of those who survived the initial Opel crisis a few years back - which brought bankruptcy to many Opel dealers -, have re-positioned themselves as a multi-brand dealer. Soon they will be just back to Opel.

Other dealers completely gave up the Opel brand and became pure Chevrolet dealers. They will be hit even harder.

Well, that is the current state for Germany at least, where you can actually see a lot of re-badged Daewoo's driving around. My neighbour works for the local Opel dealer, I shall ask him about what he thinks about it.

 

[Cowboy]

You know what I just remebered? About a year and a half ago the local Opel dealer quit selling Chevrolet , when I casually asked him about it when I was there he responded with " I don't expect Chevy to last much longer".........

 

[AiR]

Apparently not everyone is happy with GM's decision.

It looks like the Opel dealers are kinda shocked by it.

Most of those who survived the initial Opel crisis a few years back - which brought bankruptcy to many Opel dealers -, have re-positioned themselves as a multi-brand dealer. Soon they will be just back to Opel.

Many dealerships only sell cars from one corporation? That's very rare here, it's always several from different companies, otherwise you're extremely vulnerable. So Fiat/Mercedes/KIA, Hyundai/Opel/Subaru, Citro?n/Mitsubishi, Volvo/Renault... Excemption to the rule would be the VAG-Group dealers who tend to offer just their own brands, but they have so (too) many...

 

[DanRoM]

Many dealerships only sell cars from one corporation?

That's the usual here, up until a few years ago typically only VW/Audi dealerships were mixed, and some dealers were multi-Japanese-brand, perhaps.

But now, mixing brands seems a little more common. From the top of my hat, I know a Ford/Opel and a Seat/Jeep dealership in my town.

 

[Dr_Grip]

Well, that is the current state for Germany at least, where you can actually see a lot of re-badged Daewoo's driving around.

That must be a local thing for Ostfriesland. Chevrolet stands at a market share of 0.6%, which I would not describe as "a lot".

 

[MacGuffin]

You know of course, that calling my region here "Ostfriesland", contains about the same danger for you, as standing in the Schalke fan block wearing a BVB shirt?

You can be lucky I am not a native here

 

[SchumacherM]

Sorry, was thinking of the Ducato - not hard to get the names for two crap Fiats not sold in your country wrong.

This pile:

Let me highlight something in the below statement:


And that's the problem - perception. It's not that they actually *are* significantly more wasteful, it's just that people *think* they are. Never mind that the Sprinters in commercial service get the same or worse fuel economy than a comparable F-series truck; F-150 gets better gas mileage in the real world than the Sprinter 1500, the diesel F-350 gets the same or better fuel economy than the 3500 diesel Sprinter while making a lot more power. (How did the Germans make such a small diesel get such crap fuel economy, anyway?)

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You forget the US Sprinter has the larger US spec bumpers on it, which makes it longer. And MBUSA doesn't seem to list overall length on their website.

My landlord has a later Super Duty truck. Next time he's over here, I can park next to him and you can see the size difference in photographic evidence.

All that said, those photos I took don't lie - the SWB Sprinter isn't a lot smaller than my "super gargantuan impractical in Europe never going to work here because its too big" crew cab long bed pickup truck. The Sprinter is only significantly shorter in one dimension, length. And that, not by much.

Don't piss on something your have no clue about. Next to the Daily, the Ducato/Jumper/Boxer lineup is the best commercial vehicle to run and use. And stuff doesn't get rained/snowed on as in a pickup. And the size is justified since the cargo space is immense. Not just a bed at the back of a cab.

And the Sprinter is a pile of overprice garbage from the get go.

 

[rickhamilton620]

Ducato is sold here now, albeit with semi-significant modifications for USDM island: http://www.allpar.com/trucks/ram/ProMaster.html

 

[Cowboy]

Don't piss on something your have no clue about. Next to the Daily, the Ducato/Jumper/Boxer lineup is the best commercial vehicle to run and use. And stuff doesn't get rained/snowed on as in a pickup. And the size is justified since the cargo space is immense. Not just a bed at the back of a cab.

And the Sprinter is a pile of overprice garbage from the get go.

You know what? Your fanboyism is getting old, I know you are in love with flimsy Italian crap since in that part of the forth world you call home it still qualifies a a proper car, but in this, it is you who has no clue what you are on about.

You know WHY the Ducato/jumper/Boxer lineup is the most common? Because it's dirt cheap, end off.

Why is it cheap? Because it's made with that ever brilliant combination of French and Italian building standards, so they have horrible reliability reputations, because it uses materials even Dacia would not touch with a 6 foot pole and because they are about as comfortable as falling down a cliff.

Why can it haul more cargo than a truck? Because it's a VAN, a VAN is not a TRUCK, a van is a rolling cargo area with minimal seating area and comfort, a truck is a car with a cargo area on the back of it, they are a completely different animal, the only reason Spectre brought a comparison up between his truck and a van is because the resident Finalgear eurofag brigade keeps comparing them to van's, once again proving they have no clue.

Try to get that in your brain.

 

[SchumacherM]

Try to get it in you dumbass brain that the USA is the USA. We live in different worlds and this is all that we have to try and compare. That's what we use to do shit. And would you for once get your head out of your ass like so many other anti-euro-anythings and stop with the shitty italians sterotypes? Many, many, many of these euro-vans run around here. Very reliably.

My so called fanboyism is perhaps just as annoying as your constant "hurr-durr look at me, I'm really an american, hurr, EU anything is shit, hurr shitboxes" routine.

 

[Dr_Grip]

I certainly would say that in Europe, vans fill exactly the same roles pick-up trucks do in the US. In fact, a DoKa is relatively close to a crew cab truck.

That does not mean that for some uses, a pick-up truck could not make sense in Europe as well, just as a van makes sense for some uses stateside.

But saying that the Sprinter/Crafter is a "pile of overprice garbage from the get go" is bullshit as well. Maybe the Ducato/Jumper/Boxer is better value for money because it is that much cheaper, but there's no question about the Sprinter/Crafter being the higher quality, more reliable and more pleasant to be in vehicle.

 

[narf]

I certainly would say that in Europe, vans fill exactly the same roles pick-up trucks do in the US. In fact, a DoKa is relatively close to a crew cab truck.

Those aren't trying to pretend to be cars, and nobody is going to daily those.

 

[Dr_Grip]

Those aren't trying to pretend to be cars, and nobody is going to daily those.

That's not true. I know at least one person DD'ing his ex-army VW T3 DoKa. According to him, it's superior to his Chevy StepVan in terms of creature comforts.

 

[narf]

Exceptions to every rule also T3, not Sprinter/Crafter