Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

[Dr_Grip]

Heh, spoken as a (presumably) young, healthy, educated, mid-income, male... How hard can it be? In any western country.

That definitly is true for me as well - I enjoyed living in the US from a very priviliged perspective. And add "white" to the list above.

 

[MacGuffin]

I'd really like to know how many Europeans that love to criticise the United States actually know how it is to live here

<- born and raised in Russia. Definitely know the value of freedom of opportunity. The USA is not perfect, no country is, and it has its shortcomings, but I firmly believe that it is the best country in the world for me overall. Then again, I adhere rather closely to the old-school protestant ideal of hard work, as well as the founders' belief in personal responsibility/accountability and minimal government interference. The American dream is far from dead, imho.

Oh, I would never doubt the charms of the USA. It's only the fact that the prosperity is a little bit too unevenely spread there for my taste

Of course you as an immigrant see it differently and yes, America is definitely preferrable over Russia (especially with the current political direction there). But to me the USA always bought the marvellous upsides on one hand with the price of too many unacceptable downsides on the other hand. Personally I'd prefer the Scandinavian way of life over the American Way of Life - I'm a bit northern European at heart, I guess...

Plus from my travels inside the USA I simply cannot get used to the thought of living in a country, where lots of things seem unfinished or fake for European eyes. The only finished parts of the country seem to be in New England, almost everything else makes the impression of being temporarily installed and could be dismantled and moved somewhere else anytime, if necessary. Lots and lots looked artificial and fake to me. This is of course a completely subjective point of view.

I guess like most Europeans, I'm a bit torn between admiration and disappointment, when it comes to the USA. That's probably why most Germans I know, who think about immigration, consider Australia, New Zealand or Canada over the USA these days...

 

[LeVeL]

Heh, spoken as a (presumably) young, healthy, educated, mid-income, male... How hard can it be? In any western country.

Yes and no. Here I had the opportunity to quite literally go from nothing to something. I got into several good universities (btw American universities are some of the best in the world) on merit, rather than parents' help. I had my pick of majors, as well as hobbies/clubs/activities. When the club I was interested in didn't exist, I made one. I found a job that enabled me to move to Boston on my own. I got into a top-tier graduate program and I found a way to get it paid for. I drive the car I want to drive, do whatever I want to do in my free time, and when considering where to go next, the entire country is wide open for me. My point isn't to toot my own horn but to illustrate the amount of opportunity and personal freedom that I get to enjoy that I may not have been able to enjoy in most other countries. I love the "free spirit" ideology of "don't like it? simply move to another state that suits your needs". Maybe I'm biased but I consider myself very fortunate to live here. Sure, we don't have Italy's museums, Greece's architecture, or France's fine dining, but those are small prices to pay for what we do have, imho.

Oh, I would never doubt the charms of the USA. It's only the fact that the prosperity is a little bit too unevenely spread there for my taste

I'm probably in the minority but I still believe that if you work hard enough, you can join the 1%. Remember, people like Sergey Brin do not come from wealthy families.

Personally I'd prefer the Scandinavian way of life over the American Way of Life - I'm a bit northern European at heart, I guess...

And I'm the opposite

Plus from my travels inside the USA I simply cannot get used to the thought of living in a country, where lots of things seem unfinished or fake for European eyes. The only finished parts of the country seem to be in New England, almost everything else makes the impression of being temporarily installed and could be dismantled and moved somewhere else anytime, if necessary. Lots and lots looked artificial and fake to me. This is of course a completely subjective point of view.

Keep in mind that the US is a significantly younger country that those in Europe. We gained independence from Britain not even 250 years ago. By 1850 the union consisted of just 30 states. I see this nation's accomplishments in such a short period of time admirable.

 

[Dr_Grip]

I'm probably in the minority but I still believe that if you work hard enough, you can join the 1%.

The "still" part of that sentence proves your belief true: Unlike generally assumed, social mobility in the US has not changed (for the better or the worse) in the last generation. It rests at a nine percent chance for a child from the poorest fifth of the population to make it into the richest fifth. In Denmark, it's 18%*. Don't have any numbers for Germany, but I guess that Germany's closer to the US. (src)

* We have to keep in mind that in Denmark, the gap between poorest fifth and richest fifth is smaller to begin with. That makes the 18% a lot less impressive.

Plus from my travels inside the USA I simply cannot get used to the thought of living in a country, where lots of things seem unfinished or fake for European eyes.[...] Lots and lots looked artificial and fake to me.

While I understand the part about the US having a certain... improvised feel to it, I can't really agree on the "fake" part. The only place in the US (I visited the east coast, the South and California) where I've felt a certain disconnect due to everything feeling fake and plastic was LA. Did not have that feeling anywhere else.

 

[LeVeL]

The "still" part of that sentence proves your belief true: Unlike generally assumed, social mobility in the US has not changed (for the better or the worse) in the last generation. It rests at a nine percent chance for a child from the poorest fifth of the population to make it into the richest fifth. In Denmark, it's 18%*

How are those "chances" calculated? Or are they simply indicative of the people that actually do make it out of poverty? Denmark also has a significantly smaller population and the general makeup of the population is different. The US has several high-crime poor areas that are basically slums - Detroit is not exactly the beacon of family values where both parents promote higher education.

 

[Dr_Grip]

How are those "chances" calculated? Or are they simply indicative of the people that actually do make it out of poverty? Denmark also has a significantly smaller population and the general makeup of the population is different. The US has several high-crime poor areas that are basically slums - Detroit is not exactly the beacon of family values where both parents promote higher education.

AFAIK (did not read the study, only the economist article linked) they did measured how many people per birth year actually made it not only out of poverty (defined as poorest 20%), but into wealth (defined as richest 20%) - they were interested in results, not in causes. And as I said, the poorest people in Denmark are much better-off than in the US due to the welfare state and the richest people are a bit poorer (due to, among other things, higher taxes), thus the increase in income needed to make it from bottom to top is much smaller than in the US.

 

[MacGuffin]

While I understand the part about the US having a certain... improvised feel to it, I can't really agree on the "fake" part. The only place in the US (I visited the east coast, the South and California) where I've felt a certain disconnect due to everything feeling fake and plastic was LA. Did not have that feeling anywhere else.

Yeah well... maybe I was a bit too much influenced by the Texan suburbs with their fake stone facades, dunno... I wasn't in L.A., though...

 

[argatoga]

Yeah well... maybe I was a bit too much influenced by the Texan suburbs with their fake stone facades, dunno... I wasn't in L.A., though...

Texas dosen't represent the whole country. I live in the Pacific Northwest which is quite a bit different.

 

[British_Rover]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/kru...one-leg-bad/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto


9.3 million net gain in insured pwrsons by mid March before surge at end.

 

[Dr_Grip]

Yeah well... maybe I was a bit too much influenced by the Texan suburbs with their fake stone facades, dunno... I wasn't in L.A., though...

I don't really see how that's more fake than verklinkerte Fertighausw?nde. It's just a different kind of fake.

 

[argatoga]

I don't really see how that's more fake than verklinkerte Fertighausw?nde. It's just a different kind of fake.

No idea what that is. Google pops this picture up:



That is pretty lame.

 

[Dr_Grip]

That is pretty lame.

It indeed is. The higher class variant features every single tile glued on the prefab wall individually and grouted afterwards. That's a bit less lame, but still lame.

Looks nearly indistingushible from a real brick-and-mortar house, though, which makes the fakery stick out less. It's a bit like drywall with exposed concrete finishing. Looks like the real deal, but it still is fake.

 

[LeVeL]

What's common here that I absolutely can't stand is the brick-face house:

I think the front is real brick but the rest of the exterior is regular white siding.

 

[MacGuffin]

I don't really see how that's more fake than verklinkerte Fertighausw?nde. It's just a different kind of fake.

Well, yes but at least it's stone... and not wood made look like stone. You know what I mean? Or I may be wrong and it was real stone but so ugly that it looked faked.

What's common here that I absolutely can't stand is the brick-face house:

I think the front is real brick but the rest of the exterior is regular white siding.

Ugh...

But you know there is one thing about it: You can show that picture around the world and absolutely everyone will immediately be able to tell it's located in America

And thanks to American TV and movies also everyone will be able to imagine how the road in front looks like

 

[argatoga]

Now that MacGuffin has eaten a good bit of crow, to politics:

The article is too massive to post, so below is the link. To sum it up, a lot of well to do old grossers are trying to prevent low income residence from living in the city. Favorite quote:

"Maybe [low income housing] should be somewhere, but not on a side street. Not near a park or a school," Leman said. And then he quickly added, "I'm not a NIMBY at all."

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-fight-against-small-apartments/Content?oid=16701155

From what I hear this isn't just a problem in Seattle, but rather well spread. This isn't good for those on small incomes who would pay more for travel; nor good for the city which would suffer a lack of artists and other creative professionals who live on a meager income.

 

[MacGuffin]

In Germany affordable apartments in bigger cities become very rare at the moment. The reason: The German federal government stopped its financial support for so-called "social house building" in 2012. Now all those companies and investment fonds who built houses during the times of financial support, try to make their houses profitable in other ways, for example by raising the rents or selling flats as condos to others. In effect long-term tenants are driven out, because they cannot afford the rent anymore.

Cities all around the world should look at Vienna as an example. The city spends 1 billion Euros a year to make living inside the city affordable for everyone. You'll get a 50 square meter apartment for 250 Euros a month. In cities like Munich it's likely to pay four times as much!

For comparison: The German federal government spends about 500 million a year for affordable housing projects. So the city Vienna is spending twice as much as the German federal government. 1 billion sounds a lot but if you cut other useless projects and spend the money on that instead, it's easily affordable...

 

[Blind_Io]

Went there and found this:

What a load of garbage. Anyone who actually believes that is sadly out of touch with reality. It should go on to say that our education system is the laughingstock of the Western World, our healthcare system has developed into nothing more than a money pump for companies to profit off misery and suffering, innovation is falling off in biomedical research, fabrication jobs are outsourced, and wealth inequality has never been higher. Despite all the parades and eagle-humping, the US is only #1 in a few areas: military spending. We out-spend the next dozen nations put together, most of whom are our allies. We also hold more patents than any other nation, but when we let companies patent a shape, what do you expect? We rank 49th in life expectancy (2010), 17th in the Democracy Index and falling (2010), 85th on the Global Peace Index,
9th in economic freedom, 33rd in acceptance of evolution as fact, 13th in arts funding, and 14th in broadband affordability. We aren't #1 in infant survivability, gender equality, or access to healthcare.

I fucking hate all this nationalist bullshit, it only holds us back from making real progress when we stick our heads in the sand and scream "We're #1" out our ass.

 

[DanRoM]

Will McAvoy, is that you?

 

[LeVeL]

What a load of garbage. Anyone who actually believes that is sadly out of touch with reality. It should go on to say that our education system is the laughingstock of the Western World, our healthcare system has developed into nothing more than a money pump for companies to profit off misery and suffering, innovation is falling off in biomedical research, fabrication jobs are outsourced, and wealth inequality has never been higher. Despite all the parades and eagle-humping, the US is only #1 in a few areas: military spending. We out-spend the next dozen nations put together, most of whom are our allies. We also hold more patents than any other nation, but when we let companies patent a shape, what do you expect? We rank 49th in life expectancy (2010), 17th in the Democracy Index and falling (2010), 85th on the Global Peace Index,
9th in economic freedom, 33rd in acceptance of evolution as fact, 13th in arts funding, and 14th in broadband affordability. We aren't #1 in infant survivability, gender equality, or access to healthcare.

I fucking hate all this nationalist bullshit, it only holds us back from making real progress when we stick our heads in the sand and scream "We're #1" out our ass.

If you don't realize how lucky you are to have been born here, then you've never lived elsewhere. See upthread.

 

[calvinhobbes]

I fucking hate all this nationalist bullshit, it only holds us back from making real progress when we stick our heads in the sand and scream "We're #1" out our ass.

Amen. That is true for any nation, particularly those where lots of people simply "decide" that they're The Greatest.

Anyway, nation states are an idea from the Dark Ages and there's no good reason why we need them. It's just about divide et impera.