Volkswagen is in trouble with just about everybody on the f'ing planet

Apparently VW is now seriously thinking about buying back the cars with a discount offer to a new car.
 
MacGuffin said:
Apparently VW is now seriously thinking about buying back the cars with a discount offer to a new car.
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Would have to be towards another VW?
 
Volkswagen Investigation Focus to Include Managers Who Turned a Blind Eye


FRANKFURT ? A widening internal investigation at Volkswagen is focusing not only on who was responsible for installing illegal software designed to fool emissions testers, but also on which managers may have learned of the deception and failed to take appropriate action, a person briefed on the inquiry said.

The failure of people inside the carmaker to sound warnings about illegal engine software has emerged as a crucial element of the scandal, in which 11 million cars were programmed to produce far fewer emissions during laboratory testing than they did under normal driving conditions.

The number of Volkswagen executives or engineers suspended in connection with the emissions cheating has continued to grow and could soon reach about 10, said the person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the inquiry is supposed to be confidential. Some of the employees were directly involved in programming cars to cheat on emissions tests, but others may share blame because they found out about it and did not pass the information up the chain of command.

Shareholder advocates and former employees have criticized what they said was a culture inside Volkswagen that centralized decision making at company headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany, and discouraged open discussion of problems, creating a climate in which people may have been fearful of speaking up.

Volkswagen managers admitted to United States government and California regulators on Sept. 3 that cars with diesel engines were programmed to evade emissions tests.

Yet at least three members of Volkswagen?s supervisory board, which oversees the chief executive, have said they learned of the illegal software from media reports on Sept. 18, more than two weeks later. Shareholder representatives have criticized what they say was failure by Martin Winterkorn, then the chief executive, to keep them informed.

Authorities in the United States have not said which Volkswagen officials made the Sept. 3 confession, and it was not clear when Mr. Winterkorn first learned of the illegal software. Mr. Winterkorn said when he resigned on Sept. 23 that he had been ?shocked? to learn of the deception and had committed no wrongdoing.

Jones Day, a United States law firm with offices in Germany, has been conducting an internal investigation on behalf of the Volkswagen supervisory board into who shares blame for the emissions scandal, which has thrown the company into turmoil and is likely to cost tens of billions of euros for recalls, official penalties and legal settlements with disgruntled owners.

During testing, software in so-called clean diesel engines activated emissions controls. At other times, the vehicles emitted up to 40 times the amount of nitrogen oxide, a harmful pollutant, allowed by rules in the United States. The software allowed Volkswagen vehicles to pass emissions tests without the usual trade-off in fuel economy and performance.

The Jones Day inquiry is likely to last for months and has not yet reached conclusions about which engineers or managers were responsible for installing the illegal software ? it first appeared in cars from the 2009 model year ? and which managers later learned about it but failed to take action.

Prosecutors in Braunschweig, a city near Volkswagen?s headquarters, are investigating whether any crimes were committed as part of the deception. A spokesman for prosecutors did not return calls seeking comment on Sunday.

Ansgar C. Rempp, the partner in charge of Jones Day in Germany, declined to comment on Sunday. A Volkswagen spokesman also declined to comment.

All of the executives who have been suspended so far were in senior positions related to engine or product development, including at least one who was not working at Volkswagen when the emissions cheating began.
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MacGuffin said:
Of course. And I see no reason why not.
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Conservatively that would cost them 8 billion. They would still need to deal with lawsuits even with that.
 
argatoga said:
Conservatively that would cost them 8 billion. They would still need to deal with lawsuits even with that.
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It would only make sense that VW would make dropping any future claims a part of the buy back. But then they would still need to deal with the fines from the EPA.


EDIT:

Makes me wonder where VW would dump them. Probably Africa. :dunno:
 
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MacGuffin said:
Of course. And I see no reason why not.
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Well, my little sister has a VW Golf with the cheat program, and there is no way she will ever get another VW car.
This is an approximate translation of what she said:
"There is no way in Hell I will ever buy another fucking product from that god damn horses cock of a company!"

Norwegian: "Ikkje faen om eg kj?per et anna j?vla produkt fra den f?rrbanna h?stkukbedriften!"
 
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Maybe she will rethink her position as soon as she learns that there might be no other way to get a brand new car that cheap anywhere else? :dunno:
 
MacGuffin said:
Maybe she will rethink her position as soon as she learns that there might be no other way to get a brand new car that cheap anywhere else? :dunno:
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There are plenty to choose from in that size of cars.
Due to how car taxes are constructed in Norway, the biggest cost driver is amount of HP, which means cars of the same HP roughly have the same price.
Not a big difference between a 150hp Hyundai and a 150hp BMW, of course you will pay a bit more for cars classed as Premium, but it's still less than you would think.
I have talked her into buying one with a petrol engine next time.
She will probably get a small BMW, like the 116i.
 
What's the deal with buying a turbo diesel there and then getting it remapped? It's a cheap way to get a significant increase in power and torque and you could probably do it without telling the tax office couldn't you?
 
MWF said:
What's the deal with buying a turbo diesel there and then getting it remapped? It's a cheap way to get a significant increase in power and torque and you could probably do it without telling the tax office couldn't you?
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Yeah, a lot of people do that and the chance of getting caught is very slim.
Only way to get caught basically, is if you have done some physical changes to tune your car (like a piggyback).

If caught however, you face several consequences; tax office, police and your insurance company will all punish you.

But yeah, with these ludicrous taxes on cars, ECU remapping is even sold by main dealers.
They are not forced to report this to the tax office, so it is up to the owner of the car if he/she wants to report the gained HP or not.

As an example to why people almost never report this:
2012 Audi A4 1.8T 170hp, get a stage 1 tune for 210hp, you would have to shell out 35000 NOK to the tax office if you report it.
35000 NOK = 2739 GBP = 3800 EURO = 4200 USD

You would also have to convince the road authorities that the tune is TUV-approved and that you have upgraded brakes accordingly.
If they are not convinced, they will remove your license plates.
It's just a massive effort and cost to get the tune approved.
 
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Ouch! Thanks for clarifying anyway.
 
You should move somewhere else... That's ridiculous. Why even have a car?
 
You think that is bad?
Check this out... http://www.finn.no/finn/car/used/object?finnkode=56679532&searchclickthrough=true
2013 Dodge Charger SRT8 HEMI.
Can buy it without registering it in Norway (so cant drive it on normal roads, only tracks): 399.000 NOK
Price with norwegian license plates: 1.195.000 NOK

But you are right, I have been trying to convince the woman that moving just across the border to Sweden is a very good thing.
1. Buy cars at actual price (only pay VAT)
2. Keep job in Norway, much higher wages
3. Pay income tax to Norway, way less then in Sweden. Actually Norway has one of Europe's lowest income taxes (they fuck us sideways on consumption taxes instead)
4. Much cheaper houses
4. Much cheaper food and living in general
5. Cheaper petrol
Living in Sweden and working in Norway seems to be "made of win".

But I guess we are way off topic now, so lets get back on track... I have put my Golf up for sale, hopefully someone will still buy VW products.
 
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Why shouldn't they buy VW products? There's nothing wrong with the cars. Only because they installed a cheating software in some diesels in order to fulfill the stricter US standards doesn't mean their cars are suddenly bad. From what I observed here, the whole affair has absolutely no effect on secondhand car prices (at least in Germany). And especially not for petrol cars - like yours.
 
Because they don't trust them anymore.
If they don't trust them, there is no reason to pick a VW over a Toyota or Hyundai.
But you are right, we have seen no significant fall in prices on used VW's so far.
And VW has also been the best selling brand on the norwegian market for years, so I guess only time will tell.
 
kurthest said:
You think that is bad?
Check this out... http://www.finn.no/finn/car/used/object?finnkode=56679532&searchclickthrough=true
2013 Dodge Charger SRT8 HEMI.
Can buy it without registering it in Norway (so cant drive it on normal roads, only tracks): 399.000 NOK
Price with norwegian license plates: 1.195.000 NOK

But you are right, I have been trying to convince the woman that moving just across the border to Sweden is a very good thing.
1. Buy cars at actual price (only pay VAT)
2. Keep job in Norway, much higher wages
3. Pay income tax to Norway, way less then in Sweden. Actually Norway has one of Europe's lowest income taxes (they fuck us sideways on consumption taxes instead)
4. Much cheaper houses
4. Much cheaper food and living in general
5. Cheaper petrol
Living in Sweden and working in Norway seems to be "made of win".

But I guess we are way off topic now, so lets get back on track... I have put my Golf up for sale, hopefully someone will still buy VW products.
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Sounds like purchasers of non-EVs in Norway should be up in arms over the continued pass EVs get on the VAT. Did they raise taxes correspondingly on you guys, or have the rates held steady for some time?
 
kurthest said:
Not a big difference between a 150hp Hyundai and a 150hp BMW, of course you will pay a bit more for cars classed as Premium, but it's still less than you would think.
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Do you mean you pay -more- taxes for a -premium- car than for a -standard- car with the same hp?
 
SirEdward said:
Do you mean you pay -more- taxes for a -premium- car than for a -standard- car with the same hp?
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No, the taxes all but equalize the difference, in relative terms. Without going into specs, the cheapest 1-series is only about 10% more than the cheapest Golf. Over here that gap is more like 33%.
 
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