America attempts to end Bugatti Veyron's 15 minutes of fame

America attempts to end Bugatti Veyron's 15 minutes of fame

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the Interceptor said:
Well, I thought if you accelerate slowly and carefully, wheelspin shouldn't occur.
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That depends on your engine's throttle response and other characteristics.

You're in Germany, so you should remember the early 911 Turbos. You know, the ones with the monster turbo lag? You could accelerate gently with light pressure on the throttle pedal, but eventually you'd get to the point where the turbo spooled up, at which point there was NO SUCH THING as "Accelerate slowly".

Of course, by that point you'd probably wrapped the thing around a pole because the suspension sucked and the handling was worse (snap oversteer, anyone), which is why it is so rare to see an early 911 Turbo. They're all dead - along with most of their owners. Miserable excuse for engineering; Porsche should never have released that car.
 
Spectre said:
which is why it is so rare to see an early 911 Turbo. They're all dead - along with most of their owners. Miserable excuse for engineering; Porsche should never have released that car.
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That must be unique to the US, as americans can't drive them, right? :tease:

I see lots of them around here. A quck search at Mobile.de revealed 60 930s for sale right now in Germany alone in the "off season". Also bare in mind the 930 was represented a very small amount of the 911 production in total, today 10% of all 911s are Turbos, it was much less before.

The Turbo is Porsche's most successful performance roadcar, and has evolved into what is the most exploitable performance car regardless of conditions today, so yeah they probably shouldn't have released it... :rolleyes:
 
No, I've seen plenty of dead 930s in pictures from Europe. The 930 suspension was *not* properly sorted in 1975, and it killed most of its purchasers over here - most notably a couple of people went off Mulholland Drive. Also, from Wikipedia:

"The 930 proved very fast but also very demanding. The 911 was prone to oversteer because of its rear engine layout and short wheelbase; combining those traits with the power of the turbocharged motor, which exhibited significant turbo-lag, made the problem more prevalent. Even though the rear engine layout provided superior traction, sudden bursts of power to the rear wheels in mid-corner could break the tires loose, causing the car to literally spin out of control. This effect was amplified if an unexperienced driver would instinctively lift the throttle in reaction. The vehicle needed to be kept at high revvs during spirited driving to minimise the turbo lag. Skilled drivers quickly learned how to drive the 930 properly, and with that knowledge came the ability to drive the car above and beyond the levels of most other sports cars. Nevertheless, some fatal accidents resulted in product liability law suits brought against Porsche in the U.S."

Skilled drivers did NOT learn to drive the 930 properly quickly at all. Mostly they crashed and often died. :p I believe Jackie Stewart was the famous race driver that declared the 930 unsafe (IIRC). The turbo lag was horrible, the power delivery was non-linear, and the suspension would bind and release at weird times.

The 935 had slightly different suspension and was a much different beast.
 
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BerserkerCatSplat said:
Ever done a top speed run in a 1,000+HP supercar? No? Neither have I. Henceforth, I'm going to assume the experts (ie the people who actually have) know what they're talking about. If they feel that adjustments need to be made, then adjustments need to be made.
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Spectre said:
That depends on your engine's throttle response and other characteristics.

You're in Germany, so you should remember the early 911 Turbos. You know, the ones with the monster turbo lag? You could accelerate gently with light pressure on the throttle pedal, but eventually you'd get to the point where the turbo spooled up, at which point there was NO SUCH THING as "Accelerate slowly".

Of course, by that point you'd probably wrapped the thing around a pole because the suspension sucked and the handling was worse (snap oversteer, anyone), which is why it is so rare to see an early 911 Turbo. They're all dead - along with most of their owners. Miserable excuse for engineering; Porsche should never have released that car.
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I totally agree with you guys, but that leads me right to my next question: if they're worried by wheelspin at 190 because of too much power, how did it get to 190 in the first place? If we're talking about uncontrollable grunt, there's no way the driver reached 190 mph without trouble and then, suddenly, the wheels start to spin. This is why I asked, I just don't get it. I'd be fine with them saying that there are problems with aerodynamics or something similar. But I don't get this wheelspin thing.
 
the Interceptor said:
I totally agree with you guys, but that leads me right to my next question: if they're worried by wheelspin at 190 because of too much power, how did it get to 190 in the first place? If we're talking about uncontrollable grunt, there's no way the driver reached 190 mph without trouble and then, suddenly, the wheels start to spin. This is why I asked, I just don't get it. I'd be fine with them saying that there are problems with aerodynamics or something similar. But I don't get this wheelspin thing.
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The faster you go the more lift is generated by your car, and you have to overcome even more air resistance. When the car is not engineered properly you will come to a place where the increasing lift reduces the normal force of the car so much it won't be able to transfer the torque of the wheels needed to overcome the air resistance into the road, so wheelspin occures. This also means the car is _extremely_ unsafe to drive at these high speeds, making it a wise decision to cancel the attempt.
 
kekekeke said:
Might have hit a little bump on the road? who knows.
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The professional this driver was, I think he'd have noticed.

un-dee said:
The faster you go the more lift is generated by your car, and you have to overcome even more air resistance. When the car is not engineered properly you will come to a place where the increasing lift reduces the normal force of the car so much it won't be able to transfer the torque of the wheels needed to overcome the air resistance into the road, so wheelspin occures. This also means the car is _extremely_ unsafe to drive at these high speeds, making it a wise decision to cancel the attempt.
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This sounds reasonable, considering that you'll try to find the perfect balance between having just enough downforce not to fly off and just little enough to go to the max.
 
Update

Ultimate Aero TT Achieves 241.4 MPH During Transmission Durability TestingWEST RICHLAND, WA Since our first speed/durability test on March 21st, we have successfully completed a second and third session which have further confirmed our design specifications in real-world settings. As the SSC development team walks through the testing checklist of safety and durability items, the top speed capabilities of the Ultimate Aero TT continues to rise. The Ultimate Aero TT achieved a speed of 241.4 mph (388.49 kph) during a transmission temperature test on May 22nd, at a throttle position of only 71%. The transmission cooling system met specification and passed the test with flying colors, with a maximum temperature of only 172 deg. during extended high torque usage. This is just one of many recent successes the SSC team has observed during testing.

We have been working with Dewetron to validate and document speeds along with our other test data. Many of you have seen their equipment used during test videos filmed on the Top Gear program, and we have decided there is no better way to verify the results of our test sessions.

Thus far, the Ultimate Aero TT has performed exceptionally well and our testing has been free of major problems. Multiple tests are scheduled over the next few months to finalize testing and verify the sub-assemblies of the Ultimate Aero TT. We remain on schedule to break the world production speed record in the very near future. On behalf of SSC, I would like to thank you all for expressing interest and following our progress during development and testing.

Release Date: 07/24/2007
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So they needed 50% throttle for 230mph and then 71% throttle for 241.1mph. As drag increases so dramatically at high speeds I don't think the thing has the power to get to the Veyron's record, never mind 270+ which they originally claimed.
Another run is due for the end of this month.
 
Have to say, I agree. And in any way, it seems to me it would be utterly scary at that speed.
 
Why hell does this even matter, I mean Top speed means nothing the Veyron was limited to its tires.
 
ah, yes. The record attempt, which was what I originally posted about, evidently turned out to be just a shakedown run. A warm up to check out the car. Apparently the "real" attempt is yet to come. It will be quite interesting to see how it turns out.

And top speed does matter. Anyone who says otherwise is either very naive or delusional. The Veyron's fame and popularity rests in LARGE part on its top speed. Think about it...what would happen if the Veyron had 1000 horsepower and diamond-encrusted dash and fine leather upholstery and Lotus Elise-like handling and weight as much as it did?

Every time the Veyron is mentioned it is touted as the fastest production car in the world. That is what the average consumer public shouts when they dream about owning a Veyron. If the Veyron could not beat the CCR's record with quite a large margin, what would it become? Just a heavy, overly-priced, grand tourer that really doesn't have much to talk about.

I mean when you are Ralph Lauren and dishing out almost two million dollars for a car, it's gotta have some trump card that makes it stand out from your neighbor's Enzo, McLaren F1, Koenigsegg CCR, Pagani Zonda F, etc. etc.

But of course many argue that a simple top speed record does not entitle any production car to "dethrone" the Veyron. As the poll have shown. This also says alot about the Veyron's other abilities....its very user-friendly driving characteristics, its mild-mannered temper, and its super luxurious cabin. No other car can provide such an extreme linear acceleration and speed with as little hassle from the driver and as much luxury as the Veyron.

And the fact that so much money is lost per sale of the vehicle, it is a significant mark in history. That an automaker's decision to produce cars not for profit but simply for a goal, a dream, an engineering feat, perhaps. And this decision, as Clarkson opined, will not be repeated again anytime soon.
 
nist7 said:
And the fact that so much money is lost per sale of the vehicle, it is a significant mark in history. That an automaker's decision to produce cars not for profit but simply for a goal, a dream, an engineering feat, perhaps. And this decision, as Clarkson opined, will not be repeated again anytime soon.
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Don't forget the rare marketing opportunity for VAG.
 
nist7, the Veyron is like gunpowder. Back in the old days, you had to become the very best sword fighter to kill, or train for years to become strong enough to use a long bow. Then the gun came along, put in some time learning to hit the target, and bob's your uncle, you can kill the other guy. What it means, is that someone with little training and weak like a woman could KILL another person. It wouldn't really do anything the long bow didn't do, but man it's easy to do it. :)
 
nomix said:
nist7, the Veyron is like gunpowder. Back in the old days, you had to become the very best sword fighter to kill, or train for years to become strong enough to use a long bow. Then the gun came along, put in some time learning to hit the target, and bob's your uncle, you can kill the other guy. What it means, is that someone with little training and weak like a woman could KILL another person. It wouldn't really do anything the long bow didn't do, but man it's easy to do it. :)
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...so that's why we have so many useless people around? :D
 
Yup. Think about it, that's why America's going downhill. If the founding fathers had just written "The right to bear longbows", you'd be great. :p
 
I was under the impression that the Veyron had been dethroned as the fastest-top-speed car by the Viper Venom, by about 3 MPH
 
The Veyron will be dethroned only by a car that has the whole package.
Rockets and plastic coffins do.not.count.
 
Look like they finally did it:

http://jalopnik.com/cars/breaking-n...tt-is-the-fastest-car-in-the-world-299666.php

The facts are coming in fast and loose, but here's what we know: At around 9:00 am (PST), an 1,183 hp SSC Ultimate Aero TT driven by Rick Doria Chuck Bigelow made two passes, one at 257 mph the other at 254 mph -- they're averaging 'em at 255 mph. The official record held by the Koenigsegg CCX is 242 mph. The unofficial record held by the Veyron is 253.4 mph. This makes the American car the official champ. USA! USA! More details when we get 'em.
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