GM investing $890M in next-gen small block V8s

Cowboy said:
No....all the onetrackminded leftwing ecopussies in Europe ask 'what for'

Jezus man, get off your damn "sofisticated European" horse and let everyone enyoy/research/produce/drive the kind off cars/engines they like....
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I don't stop them do I? It's their governments money, they can spend it however they wish ;)
 
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AiR said:
I don't stop them do I? It's their goverments money, they can spend it however they wish ;)
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You misspelled citizens'.
 
You only insist on whining about it with snerky comments, constantly repeating yourself in your blind hate towards anything bigger then a bloody lunchbox with a 1.1L engine.......

3 words:

realy ,damn ,old
 
argatoga said:
You misspelled citizens'.
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You're right I did, government is a hard word to spell.

Cowboy said:
realy ,damn ,old
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It's great that GM wants to make V8 engines more fuel efficient, and spend uptowards a billion dollars on doing so. However reading through the press release I ask myself, are they really interested in fuel economy? Or are they more interested in preserving jobs at existing factories? I think the PR makes it clear that it is the latter, investments are primarily in new engine machining equipment and other tooling.

The follow-up question is of course, could GM spend a billion dollars in another way and get a bigger return in fuel efficiency? I think they could, but instead favour to keep their owners happy.
 
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Look at the 2.0l used in the Solstice/Sky/Gt. It is the highest power output per liter engine ever produced by GM(130hp per liter). The small block has been around forever because it works so well in so many applications, and they are going to improve it using some of the same tech that 2.0l has. How can that be anything but good for the car community?

Also, show me another engine that has as long a run as the small block Chevy. Then show me an engine that is as adaptable. Like/understand it or not, it can't be denied.
 
Well I don't really have a issue with what they are doing:

There where rumors of a 3 Valve per-cylinder push-rod engine that GM where going to do a few years ago.

I think the idea of a pushrod engine still has a lot of merit, and lets be honest GM have a very successful history of getting a old motor, dressing it up with modern technology and construction materials (that V6):

Hence..

JCE said:
This next gen of small block V8's better produce some good amount of power with LESS DISPLACEMENT. I'm growing tired of the increase in displacement just to get more power.
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Or you end up with the situation that Holden had here: You have a pushrod V6 that yes, is 800cc larger than the Nissan OHC 6 they where using ( and the pushrod 6 is all cast iron, not iron/alloy), but its actually 5kg lighter and with the better electronics and materials uses less fuel than the Nissan 6 and produces more power, torque and has better throttle response

A Di pushrod motor may be yes a little down on power from a top of the range 4 valve overhead cam V8, but it will weigh less, have a lower C or G....hell if they dress it up with enough electronics they may even end up on top....its happened before....
 
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AiR said:
The follow-up question is of course, could GM spend a billion dollars in another way and get a bigger return in fuel efficiency? I think they could, but instead favour to keep their owners happy.
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welcome to the world off the free market....... so you would rather have GM spend that money on researching crappy 4pots/eco/hybrid garbage I take it? meaning that it would save fuel and pollution for your precious enviroment, but GM's customers will not like it, hence switching brands pushing GM further down the line off bancrupcy (if they arent allready there) costing even more jobs?

You know what? that sort off moronic 'fuelsaving before people' thinking is exactly what is wrong with this world today.....

GM's customers want V8's? give em damn V8's!

You know what somebody should bring back ? dual carburated Big-blocks......preferrably installed in something whithout an exhaust that's 2 lanes wide, I would sign a blank cheque as soon as they announced it just to counter this ecoinsanity.
 
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I just hope it stays a pushrod motor to troll the fuck out of the OHC Extremists for fun.

Long Live the Small Block!
 
Oh god, im sure they could manage to make a carbureted motor that does 22 miles per gallon city. i'd be over the moon. Im sure the technology is there, and i just dont want european or japanese style cars, ever. Making them go "Whaa?" keeps us far away from them, where we belong.
 
Cowboy said:
welcome to the world off the free market....... so you would rather have GM spend that money on researching crappy 4pots/eco/hybrid garbage I take it? meaning that it would save fuel and pollution for your precious enviroment, but GM's customers will not like it, hence switching brands pushing GM further down the line off bancrupcy (if they arent allready there) costing even more jobs?
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I find that statement ironic considering GM's continued existence goes against all principles of a free market, and my thesis in this matter is that GM is more concerned with preserving jobs at already existing manufacturing plants than increasing fuel economy of their cars. Is that a bad thing? Not if you're the UAW or the US government. But is it beneficial for GM in the long run? Is it worth sticking with upgrading the existing engines instead of taking the Ford approach? I personally feel that this is yet another example of politics above product at GM.

But let's move on and see what american customers want.

ja9ahw.jpg

Consumer Reports 'Auto Pulse' - August 2009

Most important? Price of course. Second most important? Fuel economy. And that's even in this day and age when fuel is "cheap". Note where performance comes on the list...
 
What Americans say they want, and what they buy are sometimes two completely different things. Best selling vehicle in the country, for decades? Ford F-150. The Chevy Silverado is usually in second.
 
Yea the data for those is usually formulated in a weird way. They'll sit 5 people at a table and ask "Do you want your car to be cheap", everyone says yes. "Do you want your car to be safe"? everyone says yes. "Do you want good fuel econemy", everyone says yes.

But when they get to the showroom they get the biggest engine possible, because thats the correct choice. People are stupid and we need to accept that. screw america, alalalallalalalala.
 
To all the guys bragging around with the Corvette's tremendous fuel-economy. That's got more to do with the very long gear ratios (of the sixth gear especially) than with anything else. Of course, because of the big displacement and thereby big torque, that works. But the smallblock isn't more efficient than other good engines by design.
That said, I'm glad the smallblock lives on. It's one of the truly great engines in car history and has tremendous character. Of course, there are more modern designs of engines, but the concept of the big V8 still works, as long as you aren't taxed by displacement. For the price it costs to produce, it's probably the best engine around. Money left aside, there are of course superior engines like the M3 V8, the 760i V12 Twin Turbo, the 335i six, the 458 V8 and the 599/Enzo V12 to name a few.
 
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How is OHV more modern than OHV? They both came out around around the same time (give or take a few years).
 
Avalange said:
Money left aside, there are of course superior engines like the M3 V8, the 760i V12 Twin Turbo, the 335i six, the 458 V8 and the 599/Enzo V12 to name a few.
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Hmm, yes. I do not consider the engines you listed as superior though. Most are hugely expensive and overly complicated without offering significant advantages over the LS series.
 
Avalange said:
Money left aside, there are of course superior engines like the M3 V8, the 760i V12 Twin Turbo, the 335i six, the 458 V8 and the 599/Enzo V12 to name a few.
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Wager a bet that each one of those cars would be faster with an LS9. (Enzo would be close)
 
Avalange said:
Money left aside, there are of course superior engines like the M3 V8, the 760i V12 Twin Turbo, the 335i six, the 458 V8 and the 599/Enzo V12 to name a few.
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I missed this. Tell me why? It is damn hard to beat an American V8 when it comes to power/weight. OHV engines are also much more compact (see my sig).

BMW engines aren't light. I don't have the exact figures as it is hard to measure the mass of a black hole.
 
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Avalange said:
To all the guys bragging around with the Corvette's tremendous fuel-economy. That's got more to do with the very long gear ratios (of the sixth gear especially) than with anything else. Of course, because of the big displacement and thereby big torque, that works. But the smallblock isn't more efficient than other good engines by design.
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Well the issue these days is not really the metal, but how good a materials you make it out of (weight, strength and friction), and the electronics attached to it. I seriously doubt that the European engines would be bang up to date electronically (I mean look at it historically)...then again Bosch are getting quite good these days...

They must have done a good job of optimizing their airflow at the rpm and road speed they cruise at and I suppose a DOHC engine would not be inherently better than this.

Now I don't like push-rod engines (nor American engines), but when you get it explained to you (looking over the whole system) deep down it does make sense. Don't write a engine off until you cover the whole system.

/building my own car has ruined my view of the automotive world! Ack! Now I'm defending a yank pushrod V8! What next?!?!
 
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