Rumour Mill: Gm to halt plans on Volt- lay-offs this week?

[tigger]

Yeah, if they do it once they're out of cash I can guarantee that the judge will say "No, it's not salvagable, go straight to Chapter 7." Heck, they have cash now and they can't find any bank dumb enough to lend them cash. What makes them think that they'll find one when they have no cash?

Another aspect of Chapter 11 is that they can void the dealership contracts - so they can do something like kill Buick and Pontiac (both pointless now) and strip down to three real divisions, preferably Chevrolet, Cadillac and Saturn.

Yes and yes. I don't know how many judges would just part out GM, but them running their cash reserves to 0 certainly wouldn't help their case.

Ha, don't forget about GMC, the most redundant brand GM offers! If they just whittled their marques down to Chevrolet, Cadillac and Saturn ... whew. Surely it would be in their best financial interest to do it though. Kill off the UAW, the overly-massive dealership network, redundant product lines ... my God GM would be profitable. But it would be hell getting there.

 

[Spectre]

There is never significant gain without pain and loss.

Put GMC back into heavy trucks and get them out of the light truck market. They do okay at selling heavy trucks (semis, box trucks, etc., etc.). That's the end of most retail GMC dealers.

Kill Buick. You can do it now, when you still have a few customers to transition to Caddy, or you can do later when all the Buick customers are dead.

Kill Pontiac. Take the RWD cars and move them over to Chevrolet. The G8 can be the new Impala, just kill the Solstice but keep the Saturn Sky twin, throw the rest away (whose idiot idea was it to sell a Cobalt with Pontiac badges and no other changes as the Pontiac G5???).

Sell Saab. There should be *someone* in Europe stupid enough to want it back.

Reposition Saturn to sell actual imported GM product. As in, all the European market cars that we want over here. Saturn doesn't have a long heritage and already basically is 70% rebadged Opels anyway. It also is the least touched by the GM reputation for fucked up quality and design.

Cadillac stays intact and expands its reach upmarket a little with the proposed DTS replacement. They also NEED to build the Sixteen, even if it's just built to order.

If GM runs their cash all the way to 0, that will also be the chance of a judge deciding that there's redeemable value in the company and NOT ordering chapter 7 immediately.

 

[argatoga]

Sell Saab. There should be *someone* in Europe stupid enough to want it back.

BMW?

Cadillac stays intact and expands its reach upmarket a little with the proposed DTS replacement. They also NEED to build the Sixteen, even if it's just built to order.

Agreed.

If GM runs their cash all the way to 0, that will also be the chance of a judge deciding that there's redeemable value in the company and NOT ordering chapter 7 immediately.

I don't expect them going into chapter 7. It would fuck up everyone severally due to the one million parts companies which service GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.

 

[Spectre]

I don't expect them going into chapter 7. It would fuck up everyone severally due to the one million parts companies which service GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc.

No, they'll *file* Chapter 11. But if they have no cash, chances are good that the judge will order immediate Chapter 7 instead.

 

[Blind_Io]

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid={0C719BB4-C419-46BC-9DA4-16DF4EA7C804}&siteid=yhoof2

CORRECT: GM posts $2.54 billion loss as revenue tumbles


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- General Motors Corp on Friday reported a third-quarter loss of $2.5 billion, or $4.45 a share, vs. a loss from continuing operations of $42.5 billion, or $75.12 a share, a year ago. Excluding a $4.9 billion gain relating to union cost savings and other one-time items, the loss would have come in at $4.20 billion, or $7.35 a share. Revenue dropped to $37.9 billion from $43.7 billion a year earlier. Analysts polled by FactSet Research were looking for a loss on average of $3.54 a share.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hrfGP53YnWGipuckEK3htwwlCw6AD94A74NO0

GM reports $2.5B 3Q loss, says running out of cash

By TOM KRISHER and JEFF KAROUB ? 5 hours ago
DETROIT, Mich. (AP) ? General Motors Corp. says it lost $2.5 billion in the third quarter and warned that it could run out of cash in 2009.
GM also said it has suspended talks to acquire Chrysler.
The automaker also said its cash burn for the quarter accelerated to $6.9 billion due to a severe U.S. auto sales slump.
The company on Friday reported a net loss of $4.45 per share during the quarter, compared with a record-setting loss of $42.5 billion, or $75.12 per share, a year ago.
Revenue fell to $37.9 billion from $43.7 billion.

 

[Labcoatguy]

Kill Buick. You can do it now, when you still have a few customers to transition to Caddy, or you can do later when all the Buick customers are dead.

Only kill it in the US. Keep it as a China-only brand and don't let it wither away there either; there's enough "brand equity" or whatever they call it for it to still be of some worth there. Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac in China can all survive if the differences between them are strong enough.

 

[dino_martini]

Problem is that killing off a brand costs money. When they killed of Oldsmobile they lost money on that deal.

 

[argatoga]

No, they'll *file* Chapter 11. But if they have no cash, chances are good that the judge will order immediate Chapter 7 instead.

My point still remains, a judge will know that the effects of killing GM will hurt more than just them.

Problem is that killing off a brand costs money. When they killed of Oldsmobile they lost money on that deal.

With a Chapter 11 it won't cost much as there will be no lawsuits.

 

[jeffy777]

I'll believe the Volt program is dead when I see a GM flack saying it.

It seems like they're keeping the Volt around, but they sure are taking their time with it. PBS got a chance to see it in action, or perhaps see it fail would be a better way of putting it. Sounds like we probably won't see it till 2010 at the earliest.

It's kind of a joke to think that GM already had a good electric car a decade ago (which they literally crushed since it wasn't in their interest to produce it at that time) and now it seems they are struggling to reinvent it.

Volt part starts at about 3:00, but the whole thing is interesting:

[YOUTUBE]QPlwxeAGsKM[/YOUTUBE]

 

[edkwon]

Between the mismanagement, the bad product selection, and the horrifically bad UAW build "kwalitee" on the few products people did buy, they're screwed. Nobody over there realized the original truth - PRODUCT IS KING.

GM could and should have brought their European offerings to the US. Instead, at no time in the past 20 years did they try until just recently; and then it was watered down and "restyled" models. Great going, now DIE.

Seems like both Ford USA and GM have been exercises in keeping ppl employed and making $$ while building the minimally tolerable quality products with the arrogant assumption that their domestic market is too stupid to know or demand better.

Looks like the $$ figures have blown that assumption out of the water.

While it's going to be terrible for the economy for these industry giants to collapse, at the same time is it right to emply millions of ppl just to have to them make shitty products?

 

[Spectre]

Actually, Ford looks like they might make it. Mulally has adamantly refused to consider doing anything but starting the import of the Euro Fords *and* they only lost 100-something million this quarter, with billions in cash on had. Ford might actually make it.

Looks like selling A-M and Jaguar was a good idea for Ford.

That said, the second GM declares bankruptcy (and that will be soon), Ford should also declare bankruptcy and take the opportunity to clean house of the UAW.

 

[Rokovak]

Uh oh, Obama better act fast if he intends to save the day! Not that that's what I'd want, I'd like for GM to die and be reborn but something tells me that's not going to happen.

 

[argatoga]

Looks like selling A-M and Jaguar was a good idea for Ford.

Good for Jaguar as well. No more X-Types (unless Tata wants to rebrand one of their cars as a Jag).

That said, the second GM declares bankruptcy (and that will be soon), Ford should also declare bankruptcy and take the opportunity to clean house of the UAW.

They should, but they won't.

Uh oh, Obama better act fast if he intends to save the day!

Yep expect him to throw our money at them.

 

[tigger]

Volt part starts at about 3:00, but the whole thing is interesting:

[YOUTUBE]QPlwxeAGsKM[/YOUTUBE]

Good video. That looked like the original concept car, hopefully they've gotten it to drive up hills now :lol:.

The whole EV1 ordeal just shows a complete lack of foresight and GMs sole interest in short-term profits. That's what got them were they are today and now it seems like it's too late for them to turn around. Why not just do a facelift and some upgrades and build an EV2? Instead they've got an overhyped hybrid that no one will see for 2 more years.

 

[argatoga]

A thought just hit me. The problem with filing a Chapter 11 is that it will kill sales. A lot of people are not going to want to buy their cars from a bankrupt company.

 

[Spectre]

As opposed to now, where they don't want to buy cars from a failing company?

 

[argatoga]

As opposed to now, where they don't want to buy cars from a failing company?

I suspect it would be worse. If grandma hears on the nightly tv news that GM has filed for bankruptcy she might decided to get a Lexus instead of a Buick.

 

[Spectre]

Judging by their quarterly, I don't think it matters.

Heck, they'd lose LESS money if they idled the plants and didn't make cars at all for a while.

 

[Lupin_IV]

A thought just hit me. The problem with filing a Chapter 11 is that it will kill sales. A lot of people are not going to want to buy their cars from a bankrupt company.

As opposed to now, where they don't want to buy cars from a failing company?

I suspect it would be worse. If grandma hears on the nightly tv news that GM has filed for bankruptcy she might decided to get a Lexus instead of a Buick.

If they massively cut back on models and play up the fact that they're being saved by the government like Chrysler did in the early '80s (This is your company, America!), they just might become successful again.

 

[tigger]

I suspect it would be worse. If grandma hears on the nightly tv news that GM has filed for bankruptcy she might decided to get a Lexus instead of a Buick.

Personally, I know my Grandma could never stand a Lexus. She thought Lincolns had too many, "gadgets and crap" :lol:.

If they massively cut back on models and play up the fact that they're being saved by the government like Chrysler did in the early '80s (This is your company, America!), they just might become successful again.

They should've started some kind of crazy nationalistic PR push years ago. But once they do declare bankruptcy that wouldn't be a bad idea.