Idiots + Winter - The FAIL Collection Thread

argatoga said:
800px-Lamborghini_Trattori.jpg
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*epic facepalm*

When I saw that pic, at first I thought it was odd.

I forgot for a moment that Lamborghini started out with tractors! (I have shame)
 
Has this one been posted here yet?


Props to the Ford Fusion who managed to avoid the whole mess.
 
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^ I think its clear he did the right thing and hit the pedal on the right... :p The joys of watching people who have so little concept of what to do on icy roads. And yes I do understand that some of those weren't really avoidable and all you could do would be to brace.

However the number of idiots around is hilarious. Those who think the best way to get moving in snow and ice is 1st gear and floor it. And that stopping on an incline is a perfectly fine thing to do; even if there are people behind you.
 
MacGuffin said:
Looks like ESP in action to me.
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Trust me, you can overpower ABS and on really slippery stuff ESP is worth fuck-all. That guy knew when to let off the brakes and steer and when to try to control speed.

If you watch carefully you can see the driver lock up at the top of the hill.

EDIT: Meanwhile, in a place where people are awesome and know how to handle a car in the snow.
 
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Blind_Io said:
Trust me, you can overpower ABS and on really slippery stuff ESP is worth fuck-all. That guy knew when to let off the brakes and steer and when to try to control speed.

If you watch carefully you can see the driver lock up at the top of the hill.

EDIT: Meanwhile, in a place where people are awesome and know how to handle a car in the snow.
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Handling a car in snow isn't that hard to be honest, because snow actually provides a good amount of grip with the right tires and therefore the behaviour of the car is predictable. I know for example that on snow the rear end of my Golf will flick out in a controlled way, when I lift the foot off the throttle during a corner. I'm not saying that there aren't drivers, who are awesome on snow, though!

However, the slope in the video obviously wasn't just snow. If I'm not completely mistaken, it was a thin layer of snow over pure ice. The same we've had for days here. Absolutely no grip there and no matter how hard you try, you cannot look cool on ice in a road car. You'll look like an idiot, when you want to pull a stunt.

That guy, who apparently knew how to do it right, was also very lucky. It wasn't just driving skills. I reckon that he wouldn't have been able to pull the same thing off twice. I'm saying that, because I grew up in the mountains, made my driving license in winter on snow and ice and for about 7 years had to drive to work 70 km and back over slopes like that. I had RWD Opels back then with no ABS, no ESP, not even power steering. Luckily I never crashed but I had a good amount of spins and almost-crashes.

I vividly remember going down a 1 km long 10 % slope in the Harz mountains in the early morning hours, before they had the chance to put salt on the road, and it was covered in pure ice after rain had fallen. In front of me it already looked a lot like in that video, with cars standing sideways or backwards, sliding down into the bushes, etc. What I did, was steering the car into the rain gutter on the right and used it as a "rail" for my right tires, then let it roll down in 1st gear, using the engine for braking. Luckily no car was blocking my way, because the road has a series of right-turns and all the cars spun out to the left. Needed about 10 minutes for the slope and I was so tense, that I actually got a headache afterwards.

It was one of those moments in life you'll always remember in every detail, if you know what I mean.
 
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The first one if the typical winter accident. Happens a lot to unexperienced drivers. Probably summer tires, too. We have a crossing here, where every winter people keep crashing into the corner of the same house. I imagine their visitors asking "Oh my god, was that an earth quake?" "Nah, somebody just hit the house's corner again, like every year!"

The second one is an idiot, because he forgets that while his 4WD has a lot of traction on ice when accelerating, his braking is actually worse, than with any VW Polo. Because the mass of the 2+ tons SUV will propel you forward, no matter what.

People who think "I have a 4WD SUV, I'm safer in winter" are morons anyway, because all they have, is better traction uphill and maybe a little bit more stability in corners. But almost all accidents in winter don't happen, when you accelerate, they happen, when you brake! Or rather try to brake.

No ABS and no 4WD can compensate for 2.5 tons of mass, when it comes to slowing down on ice and snow. No Brembo or carbon brakes can help you either. Fact is: When a Golf is already at a standstill, an ML, an X5, any U.S. truck and even a Land Rover will still shoot forward.
 
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1 x 800kg Smart Roadster
4 x Uniroyal Rainsport Tyres

Result: Surprising levels of traction and epic drifting fun.
 
MacGuffin said:
Handling a car in snow isn't that hard to be honest, because snow actually provides a good amount of grip with the right tires and therefore the behaviour of the car is predictable. I know for example that on snow the rear end of my Golf will flick out in a controlled way, when I lift the foot off the throttle during a corner. I'm not saying that there aren't drivers, who are awesome on snow, though!

However, the slope in the video obviously wasn't just snow. If I'm not completely mistaken, it was a thin layer of snow over pure ice. The same we've had for days here. Absolutely no grip there and no matter how hard you try, you cannot look cool on ice in a road car. You'll look like an idiot, when you want to pull a stunt.

That guy, who apparently knew how to do it right, was also very lucky. It wasn't just driving skills. I reckon that he wouldn't have been able to pull the same thing off twice. I'm saying that, because I grew up in the mountains, made my driving license in winter on snow and ice and for about 7 years had to drive to work 70 km and back over slopes like that. I had RWD Opels back then with no ABS, no ESP, not even power steering. Luckily I never crashed but I had a good amount of spins and almost-crashes.

I vividly remember going down a 1 km long 10 % slope in the Harz mountains in the early morning hours, before they had the chance to put salt on the road, and it was covered in pure ice after rain had fallen. In front of me it already looked a lot like in that video, with cars standing sideways or backwards, sliding down into the bushes, etc. What I did, was steering the car into the rain gutter on the right and used it as a "rail" for my right tires, then let it roll down in 1st gear, using the engine for braking. Luckily no car was blocking my way, because the road has a series of right-turns and all the cars spun out to the left. Needed about 10 minutes for the slope and I was so tense, that I actually got a headache afterwards.

It was one of those moments in life you'll always remember in every detail, if you know what I mean.
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What you just said is that you were able to recognize a bad situation and find a way of controlling the vehicle in a safe manner. Had that curb not been there what would you have done? My bet is that you would have either found another route or waited for the road to clear. Knowing when the conditions are too dangerous for your vehicle and tires is part of being a competent driver.

I too grew up driving in mountain snow and ice in a variety of vehicles. I've done the curb creep and the banzai snowdrift bash and everything in between. 80% of diving in winter weather is the driver, 10% is equipment and 10% is knowing when to turn back or not go out at all.
 
^ That's literally the closest bit of M25 to me. We rock!...your travel plans.
 
MacGuffin said:
The first one if the typical winter accident. Happens a lot to unexperienced drivers. Probably summer tires, too. We have a crossing here, where every winter people keep crashing into the corner of the same house. I imagine their visitors asking "Oh my god, was that an earth quake?" "Nah, somebody just hit the house's corner again, like every year!"

The second one is an idiot, because he forgets that while his 4WD has a lot of traction on ice when accelerating, his braking is actually worse, than with any VW Polo. Because the mass of the 2+ tons SUV will propel you forward, no matter what.

People who think "I have a 4WD SUV, I'm safer in winter" are morons anyway, because all they have, is better traction uphill and maybe a little bit more stability in corners. But almost all accidents in winter don't happen, when you accelerate, they happen, when you brake! Or rather try to brake.

No ABS and no 4WD can compensate for 2.5 tons of mass, when it comes to slowing down on ice and snow. No Brembo or carbon brakes can help you either. Fact is: When a Golf is already at a standstill, an ML, an X5, any U.S. truck and even a Land Rover will still shoot forward.
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Yeah, people who think their SUVs are superior winter cars even without proper tires are fun. No matter what kind of car there is with all-season tires, it's always going to be worse in winter than anykind of car with proper winter tires, even better if with studs. Morris Marina with modern studded winter tires would easily outbrake an ML63 AMG running all seasons on an ice, at least if the brakes of the Marina wouldn't fail.

Couple of weeks ago I was driving back to Stuttgart from Munich and it snowed a bit and there was a bit of ice on the road also, so everybody was going on the right lane and driving 80km/h. It was a right thing to do, because with the tires allowed in southern Germany that was a reasonable and safe speed, and I was positively suprised by the low amount of those "I drive a Q7, I can do 120!" drivers.

But oh boy did I miss my studded Hakkapeliitta 7s I have in Finland, I could've safely driven on the left lane while overtaking all the X5s, quattros etc with my cheap and old 2WD car :)
 
My old Audi 200 turbo quattro was fun in winter. Not only could you completely difflock all 4 wheels, you also could switch off ABS, which was good for downhill driving on a snow surface.
 
MacGuffin said:
However, the slope in the video obviously wasn't just snow. If I'm not completely mistaken, it was a thin layer of snow over pure ice. The same we've had for days here. Absolutely no grip there and no matter how hard you try, you cannot look cool on ice in a road car. You'll look like an idiot, when you want to pull a stunt.

That guy, who apparently knew how to do it right, was also very lucky. It wasn't just driving skills. I reckon that he wouldn't have been able to pull the same thing off twice. I'm saying that, because I grew up in the mountains, made my driving license in winter on snow and ice and for about 7 years had to drive to work 70 km and back over slopes like that. I had RWD Opels back then with no ABS, no ESP, not even power steering. Luckily I never crashed but I had a good amount of spins and almost-crashes.
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He did it twice just in that video. The first time, the front touched down first. The second time, the rear.
 
Lastsoul said:
No matter what kind of car there is with all-season tires, it's always going to be worse in winter than anykind of car with proper winter tires, even better if with studs.
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Since you're in Germany, you're not very likely to see people on all-seasons. OEM tyres virtually always are summer tyres, all-seasons typically cost a bit extra. Most people swap.


MacGuffin: Just fit a modern ABS, it'll let you lock up a bit on loose surfaces to dig h?ufchen in front of the tyres for extra stopping.
 
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