Who's done a lot of group drives / cruises?

Spectre said:
How will the maps help if they don't know where they're supposed to be going? You're keeping the route 'sekrit', remember?
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They will be able to get back home if they happen to get lost.

You guys are making this sound like we are donkeys holding each other's tails lol.
As far as the final destination - right back where we started. Also, there will really only be one leg that no one will know, and that one will be very straight-forward, seeing as there will be no turn-offs.
 
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I've organized quite a few hikes for the summer camp I work at (150 kids between the ages of 10 and 16. Usually, I know where the trail is, but I make sure at least 10 other people know the path, and are strategically placed in groups of 15 kids or so with me either up front or in back, and someone who knows the path at the other end. The kids don't know where they're going, and we always have a small group of 16 year olds who want to run up the mountain and show off and the little kids get tired and fall behind. You just have to be really strict with the showoffs, and leave someone who knows where they're going behind with the slow group

The biggest thing is that even if not everyone knows where they're going, the first (obviously) and last person do. And if you have something like 8 cars or more, one person in the middle won't hurt either.
 
20 cars. So have the first, second, eighth, fourteenth, and last cars know the route.
 
Spectre said:
I said nothing about violating the speed limit. For gods sake, the scenario I've described has happened on 30mph parade cruises through the countryside more than once, so speed is NOT a factor.



Yeah, you keep believing that.

I'm not the only one saying this, British Rover is making much the same point, albeit a bit more diplomatically.
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I am just a nicer and more diplomatic person then you at at heart even when someone is suggesting/doing something stupid. :lol:

Nah not really I just couldn't get a proper rant going while trying to type on my iPhone last night.

I mean come on if both Specter and I agree on something being stupid there is a pretty good bet it is very stupid.

Most of the people on this cruise are in college right? Don't you have someone who was in the military of some sort and is now finishing their degree? Someone in the guard and/or ROTC? Maybe even JROTC, Civil Air Patrol or at least an ex-boy scout?


These are just the basics of managing a group while hiking that I learned as a fucking boy scout and again in CAP.

Everyone knows where they are going or at least you provide them with all the information possible and they knows where they are going to the best of their own ability to follow a map and/or instructions.

Your most senior people are the hike leader and sweeper. They should be the most experienced and be most familiar with the course. Preferably they should have done the course already although that is not always possible.

A cruise is really just a high speed hike and I have done many of both. You manage them about the same way but everything happens faster on a cruise and someone can get into trouble easily.

Someone can trip and fall down a hillside or cliff while hiking just as easily as someone can get T-boned by a distracted driver.
 
I've been at or near the tailend of cruises/caravans and not known the way and I will say that it can be very stressful. Even with little to no traffic, every intersection spreads you out unless the lead car drives very slowly. At a simple stop sign, the first car goes, and then the second waits a second to make sure it is clear before going and then accelerates to close the gap. The third car now has a bigger gap to close, and it continues until the gap gets so big that people start blowing the stop sign and/or speeding excessively just to keep up because if they don't they may end up lost.

On the caravans where everyone knew the way, it wasn't so bad, but the cars ended up at the destination in multiple groups. Usually 8-10 cars each because more than that is just hard to keep together.
 
I've done these drives many times over the past several years. I've been leading for the last 3 or so. The groups we have are never huge, 4-12 cars on drives I've led.

It is much more challenging leading a drive. You have to worry about following the route, watching for police, keeping your group in line, not losing the rest of the group, going slow enough to minimize the snake effect...And you have to worry about if your route is entertaining, safe, and secluded enough to have fun?

You will be going slower than you might find entertaining. I made that mistake before, a track-prepped M3 behind my GTI and we were playing catch the rabbit; however the rest of the group was not in autcross prepped gti's and M3s, and I lost an A4 into a ditch. You don't know how well everybody's cars will respond. There are some very badly modified cars out there and some very tired stock ones, and that is before you take driver experience into account.

I always like to do a pre-drive, even roads you know may have changed and they might not be suitable or you might become aware of some safety issues. I've avoided construction closures, car swallowing potholes, and some areas that were far more residential than we should have been driving through. It will also let you know if the state has just resurfaced the roads and laid pea-rock down on a blind corner following a crest...and then you have to think about how far back you'll need to slow to get everybody else to be safe by that point.

I also like to do a driver's meeting. This actually helped alot on the drive I lead last weekend. Just basic stuff, this is not a race, no passing, keep a big distance from the guy in front of you (tell them it's to avoid rock chips or something, it works), tell them that your intention is not to get arrested, so no attention grabbing stuff like burnouts. Tell them they should drive at their own pace...you WILL wait for them, etc.

I like to start with an experienced person that I trust at the back. If you find that you have some guys that are really slow you can move them back later at a pee-break. But always have the tail guy be somebody you can count on. If your group is less than about six you can get by without giving out route information. If it's bigger than that, you might want to give it to a few guys that are smart enough to know where they are and don't have to continuosly follow the directions to keep up; otherwise you're gonna have somebody reading about the next turn and crash into the guy in front of them taking the next turn. Navigators don't really help. All of mine have just wanted to ride along and say "whee!" so now the route pretty much just stays in my head; and I let some other guys (who know the area well) know my intentions.
 
Good post/info, thanks.


MacDubois said:
It is much more challenging leading a drive. You have to worry about following the route, watching for police, keeping your group in line, not losing the rest of the group, going slow enough to minimize the snake effect...And you have to worry about if your route is entertaining, safe, and secluded enough to have fun?
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I like to think that I got that covered. Many of the attendees have driven most of the roads we'll be taking before. I have been in mother-mode lately trying to reinforce the idea that we will not be going very fast and there might very well be police, other traffic, ciclysts, etc along the route. I'll basically be riding in the lead car driven by a responsible person who won't get carried away. That said, the route will definitely be entertaining and pretty secluded, as well. Safety is the priority, of course, and I'm trying to maximize it.


MacDubois said:
You will be going slower than you might find entertaining... There are some very badly modified cars out there and some very tired stock ones, and that is before you take driver experience into account.
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I've been in cars before that were trying to keep up with a much faster car/driver and it is downright dangerous. I'm taking that into account by making sure we stick to speed limits.


I think I'll break everyone into smaller groups (4-5 cars) lead by a responsible, experienced member who will also be given directions. I'm currently looking at four groups of cars and a group of motorcycles at the back. Looks like I'll be running the route with another one or two group leaders to make sure the roads are ok and that we won't get off-course.
 
I've done a number of group rides on motorbikes.

Typically we encourage the more aggressive riders to be at the front of the pack with the Lead and slower bikes at the back followed by an experienced rider on the Sweep position. The Sweep makes sure no one is left behind and sticks with anyone who has a breakdown or who gets separated from the group.

We always have a safety meeting before the ride in which we emphasize that each rider must ride his/her own ride. Do not try to keep up with faster riders, don't let another rider push/drag you into a corner too fast and it's not a race. We are your leaders and sweepers, but we are not responsible for your safety.

If necessary, we will split a larger group into two or three groups with "A Pace" at the front followed by "B Pace" and "C Pace."

Only once have we asked someone to leave the group, the guy was taking off ahead of the leader and doing wheelies off the line through San Francisco traffic. We asked him to leave the group after a few blocks on the way to the highway.
 
"lets keep the route secret"..... why is that exactly? what the slagging heck is the point of going on a groupdrive when all you can do is stick to the tailend of the guy infront for fear of getting lost? (and the other people behind you aswell, because they where following u?)
If the people that are going along arent responsible enough to stay inline should they know the route in advance, they shouldent be going along in the first place.....have em stay home and play some more NFS.....
 
We always go over the route in case the group gets broken up at the lights or something. If people are not responsible then we ask them to go do their own thing since they are not interested in doing a group ride.
 
Here's how the group I'm in does it. Our people generally know how things go, but we do have a newbie once in a while. We place those guys near the front.

1. Driver's meeting. A rough convoy order is established and a rough idea of the route and stops along the way. Pace of the tour is established, usually no more than 20km/h over the speed limit :)
2. With a larger group, there's a lead, middle and sweep car. Having high visibility colours in those positions help.
3. Each car ideally has a CB Radio. We also have a couple of loaner units on hand. If not possible, CBs should be in the lead, middle and sweep positions.
4. Fast drivers to the back. They can choose to slow down and then drive faster to catch up if they wish. This means no pressure on newbies or slower cars to catch up. We haven't had a case where there has been a huge differential in speed from front to back, so YMMV.
5. At turns, especially hidden ones, one car stays behind to make sure people see the turn.
6. We have no rules regarding passing, we use common sense. The lead car calls out oncoming traffic on the CB if we're on two lane roads so we can pass parties not in our group. The lead car also calls out road hazards (dips, potholes, train tracks etc.) The sweep car continually calls out when all cars have made it around a corner, or how many cars are caught at a light etc.
 
For off road trips we encourage CBs or at least those family 2-way radios. The XTerra club has a couple of HAM guys, so one of those is lead the other is sweep.
 
LeVeL said:
Yeah, we'll have 2-way radios. I think I'll break the group up into smaller groups of about 4 cars each and designate a responsible experienced leader to each.
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Everyone is telling you that you should inform all drivers of the route... and you still want to keep it 'seeeecret' to you and the leaders, right?
 
Spectre said:
Everyone is telling you that you should inform all drivers of the route... and you still want to keep it 'seeeecret' to you and the leaders, right?
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Actually only two people told me that - British Rover mentioned it and you cant stop talking about it. And yes, only me and the group leaders will have the directions; everyone else will have to make do with a very basic outline of the "checkpoints".

Oh, and you don't have to emphasize secret so much. I never said sekret or seeeecret.
 
:wave: (admittedly I do not have experience)

Cowboy said something to the effect as well.
 
LeVeL said:
Actually only two people told me that - British Rover mentioned it and you cant stop talking about it. And yes, only me and the group leaders will have the directions; everyone else will have to make do with a very basic outline of the "checkpoints".

Oh, and you don't have to emphasize secret so much. I never said sekret or seeeecret.
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Reading comprehension fail.

ChaoZ: "1. Driver's meeting. A rough convoy order is established and a rough idea of the route and stops along the way."

Blind_Io: "We always go over the route in case the group gets broken up at the lights or something."

Cowboy: "lets keep the route secret"..... why is that exactly? what the slagging heck is the point of going on a groupdrive when all you can do is stick to the tailend of the guy infront for fear of getting lost? (and the other people behind you aswell, because they where following u?)

sonza68: "On the caravans where everyone knew the way, it wasn't so bad,"

MacDubois also seems to imply something similar.
 
(shrug) You try to keep someone from doing something stupid....

Oh well.
 
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